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Old 2012-03-26, 09:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #46
Traak
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
Chasing was a bit much
Why is chasing someone "a bit much"?

If you saw someone snooping around houses in your neighborhood, and he ran off, and you were a neighborhood watch person, or a citizen, would you think it was inappropriate to chase him?
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Old 2012-03-26, 09:22 AM   [Ignore Me] #47
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Regardless of he shouts that, you can definitely make a case for hate crime based on:

"They always get away with it".
So "They" universally means the same thing in every single circumstance, everywhere, all the time?

Nope, "They" doesn't make this a hate crime.
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Old 2012-03-26, 09:25 AM   [Ignore Me] #48
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
Why is chasing someone "a bit much"?

If you saw someone snooping around houses in your neighborhood, and he ran off, and you were a neighborhood watch person, or a citizen, would you think it was inappropriate to chase him?
yup, snooping isnt a crime nor is "looking suspicious".
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Old 2012-03-26, 10:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
Figment
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
So "They" universally means the same thing in every single circumstance, everywhere, all the time?

Nope, "They" doesn't make this a hate crime.
No. "They" in this case means a prejudice against some sort of criminal group with particular appearances exists within the man's mind.

Not very hard to derive: he is talking about an individual he does not know as being part of a group he labeled criminal. This is called stereotyping.
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Old 2012-03-26, 10:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
So, if, for example, a 300-pound martial artist attacks your sixteen-year-old daughter, she shouldn't shoot him.

He's unarmed.

The cure for being shot in self-defense is to NOT GO AROUND ATTACKING PEOPLE.
What if the 300lb martial artist was stalking my unarmed daughter. She tried to get away but couldnt. Under duress she attacks him as a likely threat in self-defense. He then shoots her dead. What then?
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Old 2012-03-26, 10:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
So, if, for example, a 300-pound martial artist attacks your sixteen-year-old daughter, she shouldn't shoot him.

He's unarmed.

The cure for being shot in self-defense is to NOT GO AROUND ATTACKING PEOPLE.
Or randomly threatening them with guns creating an act of self defense the gun slinger uses as a case for self defense?
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Old 2012-03-26, 10:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
No. "They" in this case means a prejudice against some sort of criminal group with particular appearances exists within the man's mind.

Not very hard to derive: he is talking about an individual he does not know as being part of a group he labeled criminal. This is called stereotyping.
No, "They" in this case is a PRONOUN.
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Old 2012-03-26, 12:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #53
Figment
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by ArcIyte View Post
No, "They" in this case is a PRONOUN.
So individuals are a multiple now?

"THEY always get away with it", who are "they"? Clearly not this one guy? Then he'd say "he", THEN it'd be a mere substitute. Instead, he refers to a group. So who are "they" if not "people who break the law" ie. criminals? Because in this context, "they" are people who are getting away with things. Note that at this point, the boy had not been up to anything yet, he had not "attacked" (or "defended", depending on perspective) anyone, nor stole anything or broke any other law.

So. At the very least this guy was paranoid, but something must have triggered that paranoia. As he had nothing to go on but appearance at first glance (he had not confronted him, nothing of the sort yet)... I'd say that smells of stereotype. In his mind, the boy must have been up to no good (clearly), regardless if he had done anything at that point merely based on appearance. That is prejudice.

If prejudice is at least part of the motive, it can be considered a "hate crime", though I wouldn't go as far to say it's a racist crime. More like hate against (perhaps fear of, or at the very least an unhealthy weariness of) a particular sub-culture.

Last edited by Figment; 2012-03-26 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 2012-03-26, 01:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #54
Warborn
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by Traak View Post
I'm a racist piece of shit.
I'm sure we're all very surprised.

An armed man ran after an unarmed guy, shot him dead, and claimed self-defense. If this is legal in Florida, then Florida is just as fucked up as all the jokes suggest it is. People should not be legally entitled to murder strangers who pose no threat to them.
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Old 2012-03-27, 01:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #55
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Re: Trayvon Martin


So Warborn, are you done swallowing that shit-flavored media pill?

If so, go ahead and see the other side of the story:

http://patdollard.com/2012/03/was-tr...ng-gangbanger/

Excerpted from MiamiHerald – SANFORD — Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned.

Trayvon, who claimed that an unnamed friend had given him the jewelry, was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald.

A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver, calling the information in the report an attempt to “demonize” the youth.

According to the report, on Oct. 21 staffers monitoring a security camera at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School spotted Trayvon and two other students writing “W.T.F.,” an acronym for “What the f—,” on a hallway locker, according to schools police. The security employee, who knew Trayvon, confronted the teen and looked through his bag for the graffiti marker.

Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described the screwdriver as a burglary tool.

Trayvon was asked if the jewelry, which was mostly women’s rings and earrings, belonged to his family or a girlfriend.

“Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.

School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

“Martin was suspended, warned and dismissed for the graffiti,” according to the report prepared by Miami-Dade Schools Police.

That suspension was followed four months later by another one, in February, in which Trayvon was caught with an empty plastic bag with traces of marijuana in it, the boy’s family’s attorney has confirmed. A schools police report obtained by The Miami Herald specifies two items: a bag with marijuana residue and a “marijuana pipe.”


Nice gold teeth there bro. You're definitely a model citizen. This is the kid Obama wishes his son would look like? LOL

Excerpted from WAGIST

The media narrative being sold is quite clear, Trayvon Martin is the innocent victim here and George Zimmerman is a horrible bigot who attacked the young man for doing nothing more than buying skittles while being black. Even Barack Obama seems to accept the fresh-faced innocence of Trayvon, stating, “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon.” More on that later.

It’s becoming more and more clear however that the innocent appearance the mainstream media is so desperate to apply to Trayvon isn’t at all accurate. The picture we’re used to seeing to represent Trayvon Martin appears to be a far cry from how he actually looked once he was a few years older. Extended School Suspension

There has been a lot of analysis about the character of George Zimmerman in the media, and surprisingly little about Trayvon Martin.

For instance, a few days before he was killed, Trayvon was suspended from school for ten days.

Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade. “He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” Martin said, declining to offer more details. Before that, Trayvon attended Miami Carol City High School near his mother’s home in Miami Gardens.

There has been very little follow-up in investigating exactly why Trayvon was suspended for such a long period of time for what seems to be the relatively minor offense of “being in an unauthorized area.” In most schools, something like that would be a detention, or one-day, in school suspension at most. Not ten days.

Of course, this is why Trayvon was staying as his Father’s house, so far away from school. And it also explains why George Zimmerman, who by all accounts seemed to stay on top of everything that happened in his neighborhood, didn’t recognize him that evening, Trayvon didn’t really live there, and was only in town because of the suspension.

It seems we may not find out more anytime soon, as a lawyer representing Trayvon’s family has sealed his school records.

Multiple Tattoos

To learn more about Trayvon’s character, we have to look to his friends and family to offer clues. Unfortunately, it seems as if most people who knew him are intent on cleaning up his image, rather than discussing what Trayvon was really like.

Even though Trayvon was only 17, he already was sporting gold teeth, and several large tattoos. This one was on his wrist, apparently of his girlfriend’s mother’s name.

Trayvon Martin Wrist Tattoo

This photo, taken from Tray’s MySpace page, shows another large tattoo that took up most of his upper arm.




It seems that Tray was also on Twitter, but his account seems to have been recently deleted by his family or friends.

His screen name was “@N0_LIMIT_*****, as you can see from the twitpic account screenshot above. He was also a member of a twitter hash group #team4dat.

At first, I was skeptical that anyone would maintain an account with that sort of derogatory slur in the title, but after doing some research, it’s apparent that it was Trayvon’s account.

The account was in existence long before the shooting occurred a few weeks ago, and was deleted only recently, there are still dozens of references to @N0_LIMIT_***** in google’s cache.

The associated twitpic account matches the account name and is still online at the time of publication. Most of the pics were uploaded months ago, so this account was associated with Trayvon long before the shooting took place.

Several of Tray’s friends have been very open about referring to Trayvon using that account as well. His cousin, who is quite active on Twitter, refers to Trayvon more than a dozen times using the @N0_LIMIT_***** nickname.



There seem to be several allusions to violence on Tray’s Twitter account.

His friends posted supportive messages using it as well, about how happy they were that Trayvon whooped Zimmerman’s ass before he died.

@N0_LIMIT_***** IMA MISS YU TILL I DIE DOG I KNOW YU WHOOPED HIS ASS DOE.. CUZ I PRAY GOD HELP ME AND WATCH YU LOVE YOU CUZZ REST ETERNALLY.


Another post makes reference to Trayvon having “swung on a bus driver” a few days before he died.


On Trayvon’s MySpace page, at least one of his top friends, Romario305, is featured making a gang sign towards the camera in his default profile picture.


Almost all of this is in stark contrast to the media’s central narrative that Trayvon was a normal, happy, well-adjusted teenager.

Instead of that, we are seeing long suspensions from school, tattoos, racially-charged epitaphs, and violence.

Drug Culture

Several of his friends have posted pictures of rolled blunts to twitter in memorial to Trayvon.


There is also fairly direct evidence that Trayvon may have been a small-time drug-dealer.

On Facebook on February 5th, his friend posts on his wall asking to talk business. Trayvon says he doesn’t have a phone available and his friend says, “Damn were u at a ***** needa plant.”
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Last edited by ArcIyte; 2012-03-27 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 2012-03-27, 02:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #56
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Re: Trayvon Martin


What a fucking piece of shit, good thing he's dead now.
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Old 2012-03-27, 02:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #57
Vash02
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Yes, becuase a person had a few trivial crimes under his belt we should shrug and walk away when someone shoots that person. Judge, jury and executioner. All while not knowing a single thing about that person.

I hope you dont have any speeding tickets, your murderer will get to walk free then.

Last edited by Vash02; 2012-03-27 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 2012-03-27, 03:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #58
Figment
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by ArcIyte View Post
So Warborn, are you done swallowing that shit-flavored media pill?

If so, go ahead and see the other side of the story:

[irrelevant stuff]
None of those things are related to THIS shooting.
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Old 2012-03-27, 03:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #59
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Do you know what character is? We were given an image, by the media, of a kid who couldn't possible attack Zimmerman and force him to defend himself. Every single piece of media is painting this guy as a good kid. Shamelessly using this guys picture from when he was 12 years old, stating that he isn't the violent type and would never start a fight.

Now we figure out he punched his busdriver, sells drugs, was taken out of school for possessing stolen jewelry, and is a typical "gangsta thug".

Seems to me the whole "little angel" image has been shattered. If you don't believe a history of violence and theft is relevant you are deliberately biased and should be ignored.
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Last edited by ArcIyte; 2012-03-27 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 2012-03-27, 04:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #60
Vash02
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Re: Trayvon Martin


Originally Posted by ArcIyte View Post
Do you know what character is? We were given an image, by the media, of a kid who couldn't possible attack Zimmerman and force him to defend himself. Every single piece of media is painting this guy as a good kid. Shamelessly using this guys picture from when he was 12 years old, stating that he isn't the violent type and would never start a fight.

Now we figure out he punched his busdriver, sells drugs, was taken out of school for possessing stolen jewelry, and is a typical "gangsta thug".

Seems to me the whole "little angel" image has been shattered. If you don't believe a history of violence and theft is relevant you are deliberately biased and should be ignored.
How is it in anyway relevant to this case? Zimmerman didnt know a single thing about this kid. Yet he pursued and shot him.

You cannot gun down anyone who you think looks suspicous in the street. Civilised society does not work like that.

Last edited by Vash02; 2012-03-27 at 04:18 PM.
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