The Life and Death of Planetside 2 - PlanetSide Universe
PSU Social Facebook Twitter Twitter YouTube Steam TwitchTV
PlanetSide Universe
PSU: Just like disneyland, without the rat problem
Home Forum Chat Wiki Social AGN PS2 Stats
Notices
Go Back   PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2015-02-17, 04:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Canaris
Contributor
General
 
Canaris's Avatar
 
The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Okay so I’m not going to sugar coat this, I don’t like how Planetside 2 developed into an awful gun and arena shooter game with no depth. Some of the only true similarities between the original and this is the names and factions. The gameplay style was pushed away from being a true combined arms global conflict MMOFPS to an instant gratification Cod/BF rip off with a Planetside theme.
With the removal/leaving of some of the senior staff of PS2 development team, whom I believe were responsible for the bad direction of the game I’ve decided to lay out what I think is wrong with PS2 and maybe how we can tackle some of the problems and fix the game in the short term and maybe bring back some players so the game can be COMPLETED in the long term.
I don’t really imagine this will have any effect on PS2 but at least I can say I tried.

So first off let’s start with something small (on a continental scale) but has a huge impact on the game overall, Facilities:
So this is where I would begin to tackle the problem of PS2.

What should a facility be? In simple terms;
• Should benefit the owner with a slight buff
• Should be a defensible structure
• Should be an infantry fighting zone

So currently the facilities (Biolab, Techplant & AMP station) in PS2 are want for a better word CRAP and have been from the start. They’re small cramped, badly designed and most of the time you can just spam vehicle and air weapons into them making them not very dynamic and honestly the exact same as every other outpost in game.
What a true PS2 facility should be is one of the biggest infantry only fighting zones in the game. How do you achieve this in a game where vehicle and air spam is the true bane of a good old fashion shooter, you simply take them out of the equation. (Calm down fly girls and petrol heads hear me out first, with redesigning the main facility and potentially removing some of the outposts from the game it would give more room for vehicle fights out in the open while)
So step 1 – All planetside facilities should be gutted and turned into icebergs (Say what Canaris?) What I mean is the part you see on the outside is only the tip. The true base is inside and far bigger than what is on the surface. The philosophy of the design here should be vehicles and aircraft can get you to the door but if you want that base you need to go in there and root out the defenders like weeds. “First we crack the shell then we crack the nuts inside!”
Oh and biggest of all, NO MORE BEING ABLE TO BRING VEHCILES INSIDE BUILDINGS, the bs I’ve seen with MBT tanks up in biolab domes or up on top platforms in techplants, heck I don’t want to see even a flash’s in there anymore. Vehicles that get inside should just go b00m, nuff said.





Biolab: These need to be made with a larger floor area, thankfully them being on stilts makes it easier to achieve. They also need to be made multi-storey internally between 2 and 3 levels inside the dome.
Capture points moved to the various levels
Access to the biolabs dome also needs to be made down to the ground level via a new ramp and wall systems (Some biolabs already have the surrounding walls) Some of these ramps will be enclosed and some will be open air.
The vehicle spawn area in the centre needs to be moved and redesigned so as not to be a place to spawn and play peekaboo through the shields. (see above vehicle in bases)
This next one I think is pretty big the removal of as many jump pads and gravity lifts as possible,
(In general I think the vast majority of jump pads and gravity lifts need to be removed, these damn things are a cheap way of not having to build proper structures in game and with a code as buggy as PS2 with all the latency issues that people suffer causes all sorts of server stupidity but that’s another topic really.)
Remove satellite teleporters from the outlying outposts and into the courtyard area of the facility that can be captured by *HACKING THE TELEPORTER TERMINAL*. (Yes putting in more minigames for various classes, I know shock horror)
The teleporter rooms need to be moved to less centralised areas inside the main dome structure away from the capture points.
The biolab exterior pads would be made slightly smaller and a couple more added on the various levels. (Some levels may be only accessible by shield doors that the defenders can use, I got another class concept for this later but let’s just say LA special ability….)

The Techplant –
Gut the inside and again make it into a 4 or 5 level structure (You know use some of that wasted inside space that its full/empty of) with stair wells instead of all the open internal platforms.
Keep the capture point at the heart of the facility but make the level only accessible from the inside.
Turn the landing struts into stair wells for the ground floor, main buildings and roof access and add new platforms on top.
Add proper catwalks around the outside mid-levels of the base with shield doors at the corner struts (yes the hackable kind).
Facility generator will be housed in a new purpose built building perhaps still in the current double stack location.
Increase the floor size of the gun deck and revamp the entire thing into a roof bunker instead of an open air platform. AA guns only on the roof. AV weapons should be moved to landing strut platforms. The bunker is still accessible by infantry attacking from the roof.


The AMP station.
Gut the internal of the station(You seeing the pattern here?) to make 2 or 3 levels above the ground in all that wasted space.
Add new ramps and sky bridges connecting the main facilities catwalk to the outer walls and taller building in the compound.
Add infantry cover points around the new open ground upper fighting zone
Relocate the central vehicle spawn to somewhere else that actually makes sense.
Add maybe 1 or 2 underground levels to the facility that if possible are as big as the entire floor plan of the AMP station (as in the walls of the facility, so the main building and courtyard in size)
Relocate the spawn room, main generator and capture point/s to different areas underground.
Add 1 or 2 new stairwell “back door” shield door entrances on the North and/or South of the base for access to the underground.

All main facility buildings will receive 2 or 3 new equipment terminals, positioned in key areas of the main building.
New shield doors in Planetside 2 facilities would act similar to the regular doors did in Planetside 1.
They are hackable by Infiltrators that can remain hacked for 60 seconds (full hack skill) before reverting to the base owner.
Light Assaults will gain access to a new special ability. P.S.D. – Personal shield diffuser. As the marauder class they can pass through shields. The skill would work similarly to how other classes’ specialities work (heavy assault shield). Short timer but long cool down when fully discharged but can be turned on and off.
Not sure what you all think, you might think I’m mad but I feel it could be a huge benefit to the game without having to completely revamp entire continents again. That the smaller dev team should focus on this part of the game and be able achieve it within a reasonable time frame.
I still think, as I’ve said many times that if the development team is struggling to keep up with the demands of higher management for results that aren’t feasible, then you should utilize that huge resource that is your player base.
Watching Devin Lafontaine Work in Progress videos on map creation and alteration using the terrain editor, I believe that should release that to the player studio and I’m 100% sure you would find some of the designs that the players create will make PS2 a more desirable game to the masses.

If anyone is interested I can post up my ideas on rebalances for ground vehicles, aircraft, classes, continental lattice and much more.
__________________

"Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war, and now there ain't no going back. I mean shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it! If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight. "
Slim Charles aka Tallman - The Wire
BRTD Mumble Server powered by Gamercomms
Canaris is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 04:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
Figment
Lieutenant General
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


....Did you just quote Rumble? <3


Personally I like this one: "Experience lad, you should learn to appreciate it", -Kup



Couple things: jetpacks don't need shield diffusers. They just need entry points only they can reach (more easily than others) as a shortcut or bypass. Shield diffusers should be something purely for infiltrators. You then get two distinct ways of bypassing a shield: over or through, where the infil infiltrates directly and the jetpack takes a more creative route.


Tbh, I would have said remove jetpacks entirely or limit it to dependency units (like how the VS MAX, the only unit with backpack, couldn't enter buildings in PS1 and required the help of an unwitting enemy, mossie dropper or gal drop to open up access to the inside from the top), but hey.

Last edited by Figment; 2015-02-17 at 04:43 AM.
Figment is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 05:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
Mordelicius
Captain
 
Mordelicius's Avatar
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


To me, the Planetside 2 Devs' chief weakness is decisions/changes based on not playing the game.

Imo, it is the primary root of PS2 development quandary. It led to:

Adding things not crucial, necessary or even remotely wanted
some quick examples:
- WDS (Imagine there's a Marathon (WDS). And a hide-and-seek (Alert) pops up. What do you tell the runners?)
- No-Deploy Zone (made attacker Sundy parking a pain and fights predictable and repetitive; Dev gameplay interference/encroachment at best)
- New lattice links on Indar making Redeployside even worse (It led to large forces going to undefended bases due to those extra connections).

Removing things that is important and/or universally liked/loved
.
some quick examples:
- The Crown nerf
- Resource mechanics
- Global Facility Alerts
- Faction Continent ownership (and the fights to lock/unlock it).

Fixing things that aren't broken
some quick examples:
- Random buffing based on updates (HE, Liberator,infil 1-hit headshot etc.)
- Random buffing based on release (ZOE, Harassers, Fractures, etc.)

Not being able to tell whether a weapon or vehicle is broken is akin to a pilot not knowing whether the plane is upside down or not. Or not knowing if the switch is on or off. Which means, 50% of the time, something can go wrong.

If they want to prevent Planetside 2 from cratering completely, there are two things that can - in short term- alleviate player exodus:
- Fix Redeployside.
- Reapply the old Resource mechanics or initiate the mythical Phase 2.

I haven't logged in since Smedley announced basically OMFG2 early January. There's literally no reason to fight without the old resource mechanics and with the constant, endless redeployment. There's no continuity, order or logic to battles. These are basic things that PS2 is lacking.

A telltale sign is when newbie players would shout out "do not blow up the Sunderers because it is ruining the farm". Or from the more discrete veteran allies "NC is the biggest fight breaker". Those things sting because it means, the only reason why they are pvping is to level those guns. After that? Level more guns. The flow of combat is dictated by the farm.


Last edited by Mordelicius; 2015-02-17 at 05:58 AM. Reason: spelling
Mordelicius is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 08:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
Calista
Second Lieutenant
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Tbh, I would have said remove jetpacks entirely or limit it to dependency units (like how the VS MAX, the only unit with backpack, couldn't enter buildings in PS1 and required the help of an unwitting enemy, mossie dropper or gal drop to open up access to the inside from the top), but hey.
I concur 100%. The LA class has contributed to more issues than its worth. Base design has suffered greatly to accommodate them. Too late to get rid of them now and re-work everything but dang I wish we could!
Calista is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 09:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
ringring
Contributor
General
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


I'd just like to say - I do not know how to fix Planetside 2.

Oh, given the opportunity I'd do things like..
- remove 1in2 or 1in3 outposts
- create 7 new continents and populate them with 'stampables'
- create 3 sanctuaries
- create the complete lattice
- change gal dropping so that you can control your fall and you don't inherit momentum from the gal
- eliminate redeployside
- simplify the map, if there's a hack you'll need to send a scout to find out what's happening
- make the ttk longer
- remove resources
- increase acquisition timers
- revam the command structure to add in a tactical overview layer to the map and reintroduce command ranks

but even after all this it wouldn't work. Why? The game has gone too far down a different route, the game is what it is.

All these changes are too expensive.

And even if all this could be done and would by some miracle create a game that would be interesting to play over the long term it wouldn't actually be done because the incentive to do it just isn't there. With the ftp model as it is, once players are experienced enough to appreciate 'depth' they already have the guns they want and the camo they want and there will be no reason to pay, they'll become 'free players' while using the most 'interesting' parts of the game.
__________________

Last edited by ringring; 2015-02-17 at 09:59 AM.
ringring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 10:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
Figment
Lieutenant General
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Tbh if you'd have me make a list I'd need a week to write it all down. >.>
Figment is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 01:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
Boildown
Sergeant
 
Boildown's Avatar
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


The most infuriating thing to me was the slow bug resolution, and all the bugs that were quashed once only to come back again later.

A prime example of this are the generator minimap icons corresponding with the actual generator states. They still don't always align, and they had it fixed once, over a year ago by now. Why can't they get it working right, when they had it working right before?

I played Everquest from nearly the beginning of that game. There was a point about two years in when all these little bugs that had been in the game since release got fixed. They finally had gotten things working to the point they could get to the numerous lower priority bugs. This is a place that Planetside 2 has never been. The game has gotten more and more broken over time, and just because something is fixed today doesn't mean it won't be broken again tomorrow (and it might take 5 months to get it fixed again, like ejector seats).

There's a community bug tracker, but I don't see nearly enough things being removed from the list. And all they want to focus on are performance issues. The game performs well enough from a CPU and GPU standpoint right now. The network and server code need work. And all these infuriating bugs need fixed.

If Smedley was doing what he needed to be doing, something I doubt, here's how OMFG2 went internally:

"We're not adding anything new to the game until the bugs are fixed and the server and network performance issues are resolved. Since we have new owners, we can't afford to keep those of you who's job it is to add new things to the game. So therefore, layoffs. Oh and those of you who double-secret are the reason why the bugs haven't been fixed are also laid off."

If I find out that this is what actually happened, I'd have faith in Smedley again.
__________________

Boildown is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 01:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
p0intman
Lieutenant Colonel
 
p0intman's Avatar
 
Misc Info
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by ringring View Post
I'd just like to say - I do not know how to fix Planetside 2.

Oh, given the opportunity I'd do things like..
- remove 1in2 or 1in3 outposts
- create 7 new continents and populate them with 'stampables'
- create 3 sanctuaries
- create the complete lattice
- change gal dropping so that you can control your fall and you don't inherit momentum from the gal
- eliminate redeployside
- simplify the map, if there's a hack you'll need to send a scout to find out what's happening
- make the ttk longer
- remove resources
- increase acquisition timers
- revam the command structure to add in a tactical overview layer to the map and reintroduce command ranks

but even after all this it wouldn't work. Why? The game has gone too far down a different route, the game is what it is.

All these changes are too expensive.

And even if all this could be done and would by some miracle create a game that would be interesting to play over the long term it wouldn't actually be done because the incentive to do it just isn't there. With the ftp model as it is, once players are experienced enough to appreciate 'depth' they already have the guns they want and the camo they want and there will be no reason to pay, they'll become 'free players' while using the most 'interesting' parts of the game.
pretty much just this.
__________________

Retired NC CR5, Cerberus Company.
Not currently playing PS2. Anyone with a similar name is not me. My only characters are listed in my stats profile here on PSU.
p0intman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-17, 01:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
p0intman
Lieutenant Colonel
 
p0intman's Avatar
 
Misc Info
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Tbh if you'd have me make a list I'd need a week to write it all down. >.>
do it. then post it on reddit for lols after posting it here.
__________________

Retired NC CR5, Cerberus Company.
Not currently playing PS2. Anyone with a similar name is not me. My only characters are listed in my stats profile here on PSU.
p0intman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-18, 10:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
Stardouser
Colonel
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Canaris View Post
The vehicle spawn area in the centre needs to be moved and redesigned so as not to be a place to spawn and play peekaboo through the shields. (see above vehicle in bases)
Logged in just to agree with this. Shield hide tactics are ridiculous. Worst at biolabs but happen elsewhere. either move the shields, or put in resource-cost shield penetrator ammo.

Didn't read the rest, but the game really needs resource attrition, not near endless resources with guys pulling near endless vehicles unless they are misfortunate enough to die fast 3 straight times (or more like 4-5 straight times for a sunderer). Also infantry resource attrition where some sort of spawn energy runs out after a while. Yes, that should evoke immediate ANT comments.
Stardouser is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-18, 12:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Canaris
Contributor
General
 
Canaris's Avatar
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
....Did you just quote Rumble? <3


Personally I like this one: "Experience lad, you should learn to appreciate it", -Kup



Couple things: jetpacks don't need shield diffusers. They just need entry points only they can reach (more easily than others) as a shortcut or bypass. Shield diffusers should be something purely for infiltrators. You then get two distinct ways of bypassing a shield: over or through, where the infil infiltrates directly and the jetpack takes a more creative route.


Tbh, I would have said remove jetpacks entirely or limit it to dependency units (like how the VS MAX, the only unit with backpack, couldn't enter buildings in PS1 and required the help of an unwitting enemy, mossie dropper or gal drop to open up access to the inside from the top), but hey.
Rumble rules
Exactly as you say one of the main philosophy of redoing the facilities into a proper infantry fighting zone would be to remove those easy access points into the bases and require more team work through the use of hackable shield doors and maybe the addition of shield windows, no more just leaving the place wide open for whoever the heck just wanders by.
I know what you mean about Jetpack class... even though I'm a filthy LA to the bone myself but since we have a marauder/skirmisher style class then why not go all the way.
Also since we have the Galaxy, Valkyrie & spawn beacons for by passing or going over as you put it kind of already doesn't matter that LA are in the game. Giving them a PSD would just give them another role to play.


As for the other posts so far, thanks all sharing your ideas. I would also love for DB to be able to wave a magic wand or large amount of money and hey-presto the game is fixed but unfortunately we all live on earth without the amazing nanites. So we need to start somewhere in PS2, I just thought if we make smaller scale changes to key parts of the game it could only benefit in the long run.
__________________

"Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war, and now there ain't no going back. I mean shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it! If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight. "
Slim Charles aka Tallman - The Wire
BRTD Mumble Server powered by Gamercomms
Canaris is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-18, 04:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
Xaine
Major
 
Xaine's Avatar
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


It still blows my mind that they managed to make the game worse than PS1.

They had 90% of what they needed in terms of game design from PS1, some of it did need updating. However, they just made Battlefield 4 Online - and oh look, no one cares about Planetside anymore because they'll just go play Battlefield.

It's really fairly mind blowing how short sighted the devs were.

There is a reason why Planetside had an active population for 10~ years. Even with a subscription, and barely any development support at all.

I just can't believe that approximately none of the good of PS1, was added into PS2.

I'd love to be able to talk to a dev, and ask them what exactly happened.
__________________

Last edited by Xaine; 2015-02-18 at 04:55 PM.
Xaine is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-19, 05:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
ringring
Contributor
General
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


Well I can kind of understand why they did certain things but there are a few that are clearly worse.

The most puzzling one to be are the shoutouts. They went with a press F1 -F9 whatever it is where you can hardly read what it says because of the font size and the background and it's completely non-intuitive.

The PS1 version was the VVx which I recall reading about on day 1 as I loaded the game from CD and immediately understood and didn't need to refer to the instructions from that day to this. Why?
__________________
ringring is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-19, 07:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
Neutral Calypso
Sergeant Major
 
Neutral Calypso's Avatar
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


As for why this game does not use what good was in PS1...

Sounds like a case of executive meddling.

"Modern FPS players are expecting something that looks like battlefield! Give it to them!"

Which frankly is the fps equivalent of

"Modern MMO players are expecting something that looks like WoW! Give it to them!"

I believe we know what the result of that typically is so no need to go into it here.
__________________
For ten years I have been sharpening this sword; Its frosty edge never put to the test. Now I show it to you, sir:
Does anyone suffer injustice?

Neutral Calypso is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 2015-02-19, 08:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
Mietz
First Sergeant
 
Re: The Life and Death of Planetside 2


I really dont know why every 3-4 months i get into this masochistic streak to get into PS2 again and end up on this forum repeating the same things expecting a different result.

Must be because im insane.

Anyways as i mentioned like 2 years ago, and this applies today as it did back then, is that PS2's problem is that its incentive to fight is all wrong. The problem is that the fight is about certs and XP and not territory (fun, engagement, etc).

Think about why slow, boring and tedious sandbox games like EVE Online are still around and successful (less now than before but still). Its because theres a reason for the players to interact besides getting the next lvl up. Certainly there is grind, in case of EVE its for credits, but thats not the incentive. The incentive isnt to get more money to buy your next ship. (joining a corp will get you a ship from the first minute if you do it right) Its about contributing towards a goal that you either set yourself, or that was set by someone else and that you agreed with (corps).

PS2 lacks the basic functionality of a MMOG that could illicit cooperation. Outfits arent enough because being in an outfit does jack shit for your goals or experience. Fuck, even STO has a better system than this game with its pretend-starbases and forced PVP "events".

What is lacking is a permanence or record of ones and by extension, other peoples, actions in the game world. Yes in EVE the borders constantly change, theres a back and forth, etc. But people somehow remember what is theirs and there is conflict, drama and tension because of it.

PS2 lacks the global mechanics to incentivize people to fight for something else than XP or some other BS number in their HUD (be it directives or w/e).

I actually miss the times where the TR decided that The Crown was theirs and they arent going to leave it, the continent be damned.
People just fighting for the fun of it:

Mietz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply
  PlanetSide Universe > PlanetSide Discussions > PlanetSide 2 Discussion

Bookmarks

Discord

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.

Content © 2002-2013, PlanetSide-Universe.com, All rights reserved.
PlanetSide and the SOE logo are registered trademarks of Sony Online Entertainment Inc. © 2004 Sony Online Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved.
All other trademarks or tradenames are properties of their respective owners.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.