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Old 2013-08-19, 02:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Babyfark McGeez
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Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


I played again since a week or so, and i am mostly appreciating the changes that have been made. It finally feels like they're getting somewhere with this game. I noticed many good changes (some of which are admittedly long overdue) and the outlook on things to come actually makes me look forward.
There are still some basic issues that are hampering the potential (imo) and some problems with the new things.
So let's have a brief look at the new stuff first:

The Lattice

Being a fan of defending bases i really like this change. Finally i know where to go when i want a defensive fight. And the enemy will actually come that way! And there will (most of the time) be allies around too!!
Unfortunately for some reason SOE decided to link ALL outposts and facilities which sometimes results in a rather bizarre and complicated network.
I mean it's like PS1 - if all the towers would have been included in the lattice.

That naturally results in a fairly narrow path, with some odd connections where the next "unlocked" base on the lattice lane is further away than a locked one on another lane.
In PS1, despite having a lattice, you only had a handful of bases per continent, which ment that the "lanes" were much less narrow and strict.

I think it would help a lot if the outposts would be somehow excluded from the lattice, or being less strictly on a "lane". It would offer more tactical freedom while keeping the benefits of focused battles.

Misc

- FINALLY i can switch loadouts with keys only - Good stuff! Why it had to be done with F-Keys involved, i dunno. Makes it less handy than it could be. But i take what i can get.

- Combining the map with the respawn is looking good. No complaints here, functional and less obscure than the previous mess.

- (New) Winning conditions: Bad. Just bad. Took me ages to figure out how continents are "won" these days and i don't like it one bit. You never know when your lock is in danger, you defend one territory and still lose the lock without being able to do something about it, bleh.
Lack of information and contribution feels wasted due to winning conditions being based on arbitrary %-number. This needs a change.


The main problem i still have with this game is another one though, and to a certain degree it still is the dealbreaker for me: The low TTK that turns this into an instagib fragfest. It just doesn't work well with the tactical nature of Planetside and makes it feel like a silly deathmatch lobby shooter.

I may have more thoughts, but gotta roll now. Will check back later.
Tl;dr: This is going into the right direction game-mechanics wise and would make me play more if it would'nt still have such an "instagib" gameplay.
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Old 2013-08-19, 04:04 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


I agree.

The lattice has made the game a lot better. I recently played on Amerish after a long absence there and the adjacency system just doesn't do the job right. Adding in the lattice was definitely a good move.

The ttk+the flinch+ randomised layout of bases aren't the best, but I'm learning to adjust. Those together certainly make getting random kills more likely.

Also if you link the low ttk to latency and cshd running around like a loon is pretty profitable.
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Old 2013-08-19, 05:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez View Post
- (New) Winning conditions: Bad. Just bad. Took me ages to figure out how continents are "won" these days and i don't like it one bit. You never know when your lock is in danger, you defend one territory and still lose the lock without being able to do something about it, bleh.
Lack of information and contribution feels wasted due to winning conditions being based on arbitrary %-number. This needs a change.


The main problem i still have with this game is another one though, and to a certain degree it still is the dealbreaker for me: The low TTK that turns this into an instagib fragfest. It just doesn't work well with the tactical nature of Planetside and makes it feel like a silly deathmatch lobby shooter.
- (New) Winning conditions: I agree. It's hard to see instantly where you need to defend now but maybe we get used to it. At least this will stop factions from owning a continent for 6 months at the time...

RE low TTK: Well I do not agree with you here. Yes a low TTK makes it easier to kill other players but it also makes it harder to survive. So I don't think it diminish the tactical nature of Planetside over all, it just different tactics that you need to apply as you need to play more defensive. With a low TTK the general reason some one killed you is because you or your squad leader screwed up and not necessarily because the opponent was better. The opposite is when you have high TTK that its harder to kill some one but easer to stay alive if you do a tactical error. So in some ways I would say that the lower TTK a FPS game have the more tactical you and your squad need to approach the fight as it's allot harder to survive a retreat.
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Old 2013-08-19, 07:09 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
camycamera
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


check the roadmap and your face will be even happier.

continent locking, continent domination, resource revamp and ANTs FTW.
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Old 2013-08-19, 07:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


Originally Posted by camycamera View Post
check the roadmap and your face will be even happier.

continent locking, continent domination, resource revamp and ANTs FTW.
Indeed.
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Old 2013-08-19, 07:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
LoliLoveFart
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


May have taken far longer then I would have liked but some of the stuff on the roadmap shows real promise, hopefully the kinks get ironed out quick.
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Old 2013-08-19, 10:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez View Post
Lack of information and contribution feels wasted due to winning conditions being based on arbitrary %-number. This needs a change.
The "Lock or Lose" % is shown on the Territory Control filter on the map.
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Old 2013-08-19, 10:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


How is TTK "tactical" in any way? The most tactical games I play have 1 hit kills. ArmA, old Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six games are all tactical games which focus on unit positioning and your small scale tactics. The TTK is incredibly short.

High TTK is the opposite of tactical. It doesn't reward your positioning or tactics, it turns every firefight into a grinding slugfest that is determined by player level and what weapons they brought to the fight. That's only a small part of thinking tactically. That's far more the strategy that guides the tactics. Strategies that are constantly changing as the larger situation changes.

Seriously, when did high TTK become "tactical"?

The problem with the TTK in this game isn't that it's low, it's that it's inconsistent. When you're on the ground some enemies will go down in less than a half a second, others will take 2-5 seconds in a firefight, others will take 15+ seconds. It's all over the place. One minute you could be getting into decent firefights at close range and the next you could be one hit killed by a shotgun out of nowhere. OR you could turn the corner and run into a MAX that instagibs you or does a steady stream of high damage while you can barely hurt it.

The average TTK in Planetside 2 is much higher than other FPSs on the market, but it's far more inconsistent. Even Battlefield with its tanks and variety of weapons has a much more steady TTK. Planetside 2 has a large amount of instagib tactics and weapons and each player has a very wide variety of different factors that contribute to their overall TTK. It's all over the place and makes for very frustrating gameplay.
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Old 2013-08-19, 10:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


I much prefer the faster TTK in PS2 opposed to the higher version in the original
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Old 2013-08-19, 11:26 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


TTK in Planetside 1 was a farce, at least for the faction with weakest damage per round..

You'd have the drop on an NC holding a Jackhammer, merrily pull the trigger of your Cycler/MCG and start hosing and 3 seconds later he's still standing up, nay, looking right at you, and Blatt Blatt Blatt, you're done.

I think damage is in a good place right now.
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Old 2013-08-19, 12:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Babyfark McGeez
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


Hehe, thanks for the feedback and the info, good to know i can atleast see the "lock or lose" thing on the map (it still sucks though ).

And maybe i should elaborate on the TTK issue;
With more hitpoints (or less one-hit kill bullshit weapons) you have a chance to react to the attacker, seeking cover and an actual fight ensues where factoring in player positions and avaible weapons are being of importance, thus resulting in more options = a more tactical fight. Might not be the definition of "tactical" gameplay, but that's what i was on about.

But this barely ever happens with a low TTK, and much less so in this game because of all the one-hitting crap. Nearly all situations are decided by who gets the jump on the other. Which makes actual engagements kinda boring and cheap feeling ...or frustrating if you are on the receiving end.
Planetside 2 is one of the very few online games where i actually feel sorry for the guy i just killed with one of the trillion cheap moves avaible here.

Wasdie put it very well, except that i would rather lean towards higher TTK and take the "slugfest" over the opposite of "instagib", which planetside 2 still seems more leaned to.
I just allways hated instagib modes, which allready annoyed the shit out of me back in unreal tournament. Gawd, this modified shock rifle. Bah.

That being said i will still hang around PS2, it feels like seeing a baby grow up. In realtime...

Edit: Also i moved over to VS, so that's why you don't see me bitching about the WW2 weapon feel and such as VS have SciFi weapons that kinda work for me (like the lasher). And as long as no lumifibre harrassers cross my path the game even begins to feel less cringeworthy when it comes to (visual) design.

Last edited by Babyfark McGeez; 2013-08-19 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 2013-08-19, 12:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


I'm glad some of you find the present trend enjoyable.

It is, however, devolving into a game of spam combat on little maps...

Just like nearly every other FPS out there.

The grand scope is slowly disappearing, replaced with the age old formula of small unit "bouncy" combat.

Why even have a large map at all, why not just "instance" the bases along a predictable flow chart?

Those enamoured of pure CQB warfare will find the trend right up their alley. For those of us that would like to feel something closer to "real" multi-combat armed warfare will be left out in the cold.
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Old 2013-08-19, 12:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


I really dislike lattice because the more players there are, the more spammy the combat becomes up to a point where skill is basically a non factor and the only meaningful difference-maker are sheer numbers.

However, what ruins the experience the most for me is client sided hit calculation.
This is especially prominent when I'm trying to play with a PA shotgun, where every hit matters and a lot of times even though I hit a lot of pellets, they simply don't register as hits (sometimes this happens randomly, other times it happens because my enemy's computer has already calculated that I'm dead up to a second before that happens on my screen).

Not to mention being killed even though I've already retreated a couple of meters behind a wall - again, laggy client side hit detection. It's a huge game breaker for me.

The worst part is, the netcode is basically doomed to remain in the broken state it is in currently. I cannot expect them to transfer things like hit detection to the server. But it's the no.1 reason I log out of the game due to frustration.
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Old 2013-08-19, 03:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: Yay, this is (slowly) becoming an enjoyable experience


Originally Posted by Canaris View Post
I much prefer the faster TTK in PS2 opposed to the higher version in the original
Mmm i found the longer TTK in the Original better. But then again many things in the Original were a lot better or still missing in the sequel.

*Towers unlinked from lattice and different versions of it. Right niw we onky have pimped up PS 1 Airtowers.

*Destructable spawntubes and longer spawn timers on Mobile Spawn...any death spawn panalty would be good.

*Usefull facility benefits

*Removal of instant base hoping using squad beacon or defense needed clicks.

*Sanctuarys

*Removal of negative stat tracking. I would like PS 1 stats back like x amount of y killed.
*
*
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