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Old 2013-04-09, 01:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
Effective
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
Planetside 2 is a much better game than Planetside 1 ever was.

Half the vehicles in Planetside 1 were shit and useless outside of gimmicks. Harassers? Threshers? ATVs? Deliverers? Deliverer variants? Sunderers? Totally pointless. Only a handful of vehicles were worth it in terms of power per player occupying the vehicle.

It pretended that it wanted vehicles to require teamwork, so MBT drivers had no guns (magrider aside), and yet the most dangerous vehicles in the game -- aircav -- were one-man vehicles. And they could fly. And they doubled as transport aircraft because you could bail from them without dying.

No resources or anything, so everything was even more pointless. Vehicle kills mattered far less in terms of depriving enemy players of the resources to get another tank or ESF, and losing territory was far less important because it carried with it minor benefits. Continent locking was just something that happened and wasn't a real metagame.

Capping bases was far less fun in PS1, because except for biolabs with the gen on the roof, they all had terrible choke points that very often turned base fights into multi-hours slogs. You'd spawn from an AMS, move 10 feet, get mowed down by 20 guys defending one 5' wide corridor, and do it over again, because the only two ways in were meatgrinders like that. If you were lucky you had a big, active outfit and maybe you could do something coordinated that'd make a difference. But if you weren't in such a group, or everyone was offline at the time, or for your average non-outfit player, it was a war of attrition a lot of the time, and got real old, real fast.

"Command" rank, which involved people spam-inviting for squads and then simply running around as per usual collecting CEP, lead to orbital strike spam after a while.

Loadouts were totally customizable, so 90% of everyone on the ground was a rexo with HA/AV, med and armor rep tools, and maybe a hacking tool, whatever it was called. Compared to PS2, where you need to pick classes and team work is necessary because everyone isn't a self-sufficient rambo (although HAs are close) it was bad. Classes > loadout tetris.

Infils in PS1 were also junk. At least in PS2 they're worth a damn and can do more than running around spawn rooms detonating boomers. Could be more for them to do in terms of hacking, similar to PS1, but it's better than either strafing people with a pistol and hoping they don't have darklight, or spamming boomers everywhere.

The list goes on. The only thing that I prefered about PS1 over PS2 is the slower pace of combat. PS1 was a terrible game and its population was always very tiny for a good reason -- people didn't enjoy playing it.
There were a lot of things wrong with PS1, but most of it was not what you just posted. Harassers were simple cheap transportation, that's all they were meant for, the fury and the wraith were both useful in their own little niche, nevermind they were cheap. Can't comment on deliverers, though the variants were strong in their own way. Sunderers were always underrated, durable, could transport a full squad, built in EMP, and could drive through shield mods. Hell, a sunderer drop from a lodestar was better then a galaxy drop.

A driver not controling the main weapon was a good thing, it kept the amount of vehicles down, and required teamwork to be had. Yes aircav (namely reavers) were far too strong, but that mostly came about as flying in PS1 being because the aircraft flew themselves and the lack of decent hand held AA.

The no resources problem was never really an issue, vehicle timers did exist, and I wouldn't call the benefits of various bases minor, considering the strength of the tech lab (advanced vehicles), interlink facilities (radar), amp stations (vehicle shields), these benefits were a great more meaningful then what PS2 provides. Continent locking is an infinitely better metagame then what PS2 provides, which is nothing.

capping bases in PS1 is way better then PS2, the bases in PS1 were too small sure, but the bases in PS2 are way too fucking big, never mind that the base design in PS2 is terrible and encourages camping in vehicles, and there are 0 chokepoints which makes defense a joke.

tools were provided in game to break past choke points, max crashes, cloakers with surge and a routerpad (something I did on a consistent basis easily), could easily break past a defense in the lobby and get a starting foothold.

The CR system needed changes yes, I did propose a CR cert system, you gained cert points unique to command abilities, which would be spent on various tools, EMP, chat, OS, reveals, and any other abilities that would be created, but you couldn't have everything.

Classes are terrible and boring. The open inventory system was a great deal better. What was wrong was when battle ranks went above 20. Sure you could go HA/AV/Med/Rexo/Engi/mossie/reaver. You have an ideal solo setup, but you can't do anything else, you can't do anything if AA is out, if the base gets hacked, if someone else dies, slow down superior numbers with explosive traps, you can't pull mobile spawn stations. You become useless.

cloaking felt more indepth in PS1, though they have more kill potential in PS2, it was because pistols were garbage in PS1, not because the cert itself was trash.
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Old 2013-04-09, 04:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


I played PS1 from the beta until... 1.5 years in? Something like that? I took my first hiatus around half a year after BFRs were added.

People didn't really specialize at all in my experience. Maybe someone would have MAX and you'd see them with a MAX suit and they'd need an engineer tool nearby, but your average infantry guy was totally self-sufficient. Could hack, heal/repair, take on infantry or vehicles, etc. PS2 requires far more teamwork.

You didn't need infils for ghost capping. Usually it'd be just one guy in a reaver or mosquito who'd fly back and start the cap on the base and then leave. Of course, once they added the lattice that changed and instead you'd get ghost gen drops, but still. Not something that needed an infil. In fact, I don't think the infil backpack could carry enough boomers to drop a gen, could it? You'd need to make a trip back to the terminal. At least in PS2 they can actually contribute to a fight in a meaningful way. Between the hacks, the radar gun, and SMGs/sniper rifles, they're very decent.

Anyway, it was a bad game and I'm amazed anyone would want to play it over PS2.

Harassers were simple cheap transportation
Who ever used harassers for transport? That's what certing into reaver was for. You got the best transport in the game, plus the best combat vehicle, plus the best way to hot drop on towers. Once they buffed the mosquito's nose gun into a death laser that became alright, too. Seriously though, if you wanted to move around the map you flew or despawned and respawned where you wanted to go. Crazy to imagine anyone using a harasser to move around most of the maps in the game. What'd you do on Ceryshen?

capping bases in PS1 is way better then PS2, the bases in PS1 were too small sure, but the bases in PS2 are way too fucking big, never mind that the base design in PS2 is terrible and encourages camping in vehicles, and there are 0 chokepoints which makes defense a joke.
You're a madman. Yeah, trying to force my way through the two doors into the CC/gen area with 30 people shooting down anyone that moves through them was sure fun. Oh, wait, no, it was just tedious. The bases had many easy choke points and any serious defense was an absolute slog. Boring and frustrating together. The only time taking a defended base was acceptable was when you were with a decent outfit and did a big surge/MAX crash to the CC/gen.

As for PS2, you can't really camp in vehicles in PS2 bases. LAs will C4 you easily. I've never had a problem with vehicles in PS2 bases. I don't like biolabs because they're reminiscent of PS1 bases, where you have people dying and spawning and dying again within the space of a minute, trying to force their way through a couple narrow chokepoints to get to the SCU. Other than that, they're way more fun that PS1 base attacks/defenses ever were.

Last edited by Warborn; 2013-04-09 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 2013-04-10, 04:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


Ironically, I just came to this site to see if PS1 was free yet.

I haven't logged in to the sequel in months.

Even if it's only the initial surge of people for a couple of weeks. I think it would still provide me more entertainment than PS2 has the entire time I played it.
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Old 2013-04-10, 09:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


I can't fathom why someone would ever complain about having too many vehicles, as compared to having them all condensed into a handful. I used the harasser plenty, it was great for when you were a new character up to around BR10. You needed certs spent elsewhere (weapons/armor) and couldn't afford a reaver for transport. Threshers were even better... extremely maneuverable and great at taking out infantry. ATV's were incredibly useful as well. Especially the Fury... that thing was a tank killing machine. You can hit them, but they don't have a chance of hitting you. Deliverers were great for amphibious transport, and their variants were extremely useful situational vehicles. The Aurora made short work of any ground unit. The Thunderer could easily take on any vehicle when fully crewed. The Raider was king at AA and fighting infantry/light vehicles. You seem to be complaining for the sake of complaining, Warborn.

You also talk about how since PS1 doesn't have any resources, it's pointless; the resources in PS2 are just as pointless. The majority of players will have more resources than they can even use. It adds a sense of depth but once you actually start paying attention, they don't really add anything to the game.

As for PS1 bases being terrible meatgrinders; yeah, they were. But at least it was fun. PS2 bases don't even have choke points. They're just an open arenas with no defensible positions. Don't even get me started on putting the respawn area on the outskirts of the base; I don't understand that design decision at all. The main base should always be accessible without putting yourself in danger.

Loadouts; you say in PS2, people rely on teamwork, and there are no one-man armies. Look at the Heavy Assault class. He can take on infantry, tanks, aircraft, MAXes, while taking large amounts of damage and even being able to heal himself if certed into medkits. It's not at all different from the PS1 HA/AV loadout. I much prefer being able to craft my own loadout for different situations as compared to being locked into cookie cutter roles from 'modern' games.

I completely agree with you about the command rank point, though. CR was a joke when all you had to do was spam invites and collect the sweet, sweet CEP. I liked Effective's suggestion of CR certs.

On the infiltrators, though, I find them much more boring to play than in PS1. Sneaking around solo in a base in the original could be pretty fun; you had to make use of your implants and evade other soldiers. Now the cloak isn't even good; it sticks out like he's just covering himself in aluminum foil.


All I'm saying is, if you don't like it, fine, but don't think there aren't others that love PS1.
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Old 2013-04-11, 06:09 AM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


Warborn you don't know what you are talking about. The PS1 base mechanics were awesome and rewarded teamplay. You sound like a zerger who just threw himself into situations. PS2 rewards numbers.The more players, despite skill, will overrun skilled players no matter what because the game is far dumber in regards to combat than the original. PS1 a skilled player could kill up to 6 people with one clip, surge away and heal and do it all over again. PS2 the shooting is so dumbed down to cater for the masses that its just point, click win. Yawn!
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Old 2013-04-12, 08:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


I'll probably be there and rebuilding. PS2 is garbage.
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Old 2013-04-14, 01:08 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


Warborn, most of your statements are so backwards, with so little proof, we could argue all day. However, you are entitled to your own opinion, and we should probably let this debate die before it gets out of hand. Agreed?
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Old 2013-04-14, 02:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


Warborn, all your reasons and arguments regarding PS1 as a "bad game" make you come off as ill/misinformed/you didn't play the game /(and I hate to dismiss any arguments off as this buzzword but) a troll.

The only argument that held up was that everyone had HA/AV/RExo/Med/Engy/Aircav, but that instantly loses merit because everyone agrees that there were far too many certs in the game.

You can't honestly believe that the base capture mechanics in PS2 are superior to the capture mechanics in PS1.

Capturing a base in PS1 goes as follows:

1)Push forward from your base to the enemies base closing the distance between with Vehicles, AMSes, and Loadstars to resupply and repair vehicles. Several vehicle fights can take place in the gap between the two bases. In this step, vehicles and support are most effective and infantry are less effective.
2)Arrive at the bases tower and capture that to secure a hard spawn point. In this step infantry are most effective and vehicles are less effective.
3)Push from the tower into the CY and try to lock it down. In this step, all playstyles are effective because it's a combined arms effort to use everything you got to push the enemy back inside the base.
4)Set up AMSes inside the CY and begin the push inside the base. At this stage, infantry and support are most effective.

I'm going to go off and random tangent here to address your complaint about the base design of PS1. Yes, PS1 base design was full of chokeholds which it made it difficult for the attackers to push in. You need that. As Effect said, in contrast, the bases in PS2 are TOO big and as a result aren't defensible at all, save for Bio Labs. Back to PS1 now, you need all the objectives to be deep within the core of the base so that the fight doesn't end in a matter of seconds. Just look at the Bio Lab in PS1, one of the most important objectives, the generator is on top of the base. This makes it harder for defenders to hold the base one of the most important objectives is outside and easily accessible for the enemy to destroy. In PS2, all the objectives are randomly skewed around the base (Hurr base design) in an attempt to deceive the playerbase into thinking that each fight is different. That would be like if in PS1, the CC at a tower was randomly placed on one of the floors, instead of the same location it always is.

Anyways...

5)Push into the base and make your way down to the core objectives. At this stage, infantry, support and Infiltrators (which you supposedly deem to be useless in PS1) shine the most. Cloakers can make their way down to these core objectives and sabotage them undetected.
6)After step 5, eventually hacking the CC, killing the gen/tubes and now defending the base for 15 minutes from the enemy empire.


Now let's take a look at how base capture goes down in PS2

1)HURR HUGE INFANTRY FORCE ZERGING TOGETHER
2)Non-exisitent lattice system to predict where this force will go, thus leaving defenders no time to set up defenses
3)TANK SPAM
4)Stand on some control points randomly thrown around the base
5)Spam the spawn room with your One man army tank that can literally kill anything in the game (Yet you complain about Air cav which was easily countered by all the numerous variations of AA you could obtain and use)
until the base flips
6)Onto the next crusade


You really do just come off as either at troll or someone who's just simply never played the game. Warborn? I've played this game religiously since 2006 and I have never heard your name ever in my time played. Makes me wonder if you ever played the game, or if you're just another self-proclaimed "veteran" of Planetside 1. Whenever you ask one of these people who supposedly played the game from beta up until a little while ago who their character was they're always very hesitant or can't come with an answer.

I'm just going to dismiss your post as a troll until I actually know who your character was, even then, I'll probably still dismiss it as a troll or just a misinformed idiots attempt at critiquing a game that he had little to no experience with.

As Double said, to each his own. If you like PS2 over PS1, that's fine. But to say PS1 is a "bad game" is just ridiculous and makes you sound like an ass. It makes you look like even more of an ass when you post in some thread that has literally nothing to do with it.

In closing, fuck off.
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Old 2013-04-15, 03:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
You didn't need infils for ghost capping. Usually it'd be just one guy in a reaver or mosquito who'd fly back and start the cap on the base and then leave. Of course, once they added the lattice that changed and instead you'd get ghost gen drops, but still. Not something that needed an infil. In fact, I don't think the infil backpack could carry enough boomers to drop a gen, could it? You'd need to make a trip back to the terminal. At least in PS2 they can actually contribute to a fight in a meaningful way. Between the hacks, the radar gun, and SMGs/sniper rifles, they're very decent.
I was referring to zerg held bases. A good cloaker could sneak in behind the enemy and drop the gen or put on a hack. Sure the hack would only be on for a minute or so, but that is 1 minute the entire enemy army spawns slower, has to hack terms for their gear, loses their radar, loses any cave/mod benefits, etc. As for dropping gens, most would keep extra boomers in their locker. There was always lockers by the gen under the spawn room they could use, and they only had to refresh 1 time to have enough to kill the gen.
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


I'm quite certain a lot of NC EU Werner players would return. Certainly for low cost and especially for F2P.



Provided hackers arn't a problem with the F2P. I'm just wondering what they plan to do on a F2P level in terms of purchases. The game wasn't designed for that.
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Old 2013-04-15, 02:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: New Outfits for Planetside


Originally Posted by Death2All View Post
The only argument that held up was that everyone had HA/AV/RExo/Med/Engy/Aircav, but that instantly loses merit because everyone agrees that there were far too many certs in the game.
Certpoints, not certs. Thank you BR40 for screwing that up after BR23 took it to the edge of breaking point and then free certs for veterans actually broke it. ;p
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