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Old 2004-02-09, 12:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #61
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Not everyone is 'running around indoors'. Some of us are repairing shit, laying deployables, driving vehicles.

We just want to rest assured that our shock troops aren't getting owned by Surge, HA and a lag chaser.
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Old 2004-02-09, 12:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #62
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Man, I still don't get it. How is everyone running around indoors with either a MAX or a sweeper a good thing? I just really don't get it...you guys must be really boring in life.
As it stands, you're either running around with HA, a MAX, or you're dead indoors. Without HA, you would see more SA and MA which have many more weapons within the certs than HA.

I agree that HA should be removed. If you want to get a lot of kills on infantry close up, grab an AI MAX, it's what they're made for.

Failing that, I do have a backup idea.

Replacement for the JH:
A heavy grenade rifle that fires grenades that are smaller than your standard rocklet round, but with much higher velocity and somewhat higher ROF. Something like 12 for the magazine size.
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Old 2004-02-09, 12:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #63
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The Jackhammer is fine the way it is, period. HA is balanced. Flame away.
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Old 2004-02-09, 12:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #64
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No need for flames. HA is a vulgar, short-sighted way to keep crack-babies from cancelling their accounts to go back in search of the BFG.
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #65
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SA - not for close up face2face fighting

MA - except for the sweeper, the weapons here are not meant for point blank action

MAX - Good for infantry/air suppression, but lack's versitality and quik movement.

So, we lose HA and we have a big gap in weapon slection. There is nothing that can be used effectively indoors or at close quarters fighting. You may say " WRONG N00B, ther is the sweeper!!!" the sweaper can be constantly out preformed by empire specfic MA, even at face2face range. That's why a peson spends 4 CERTS on the big guns so they can beat empire specific up close. Then you may say again "WRONG N00B, Max's own up close!!!" While a max can be effective up close it is rather easy to take one out and is is most often the first thing to fall. Not to mention you can't do anything else as a MAX except shoot, no hack, no eng, and no med.

Taking HA from Planetisde is like taking skates from Ice Hockey. Sure the game can still work but everyone becomes instagibbed.

Really, if you guys have a problem with somthing so core to the game as the HA weapons then maybe this is not the game for you. HA is somehing that has always been at will always be. You can try, but I don't think you can change it.
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #66
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Originally Posted by Veteran
No need for flames. HA is a vulgar, short-sighted way to keep crack-babies from cancelling their accounts to go back in search of the BFG.

Maybe you should go back to a tactical shooter like Ghost Recon, or something similar. You're obviously playing the wrong game.
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #67
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Nah, I don't think so. If I were the only anti-HA advocate, perhaps, but I think a lot of people can imagine a better PlanetSide where Surge, Heavy Assault and exploitation doesn't equal leaderboard dominance.
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #68
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Originally Posted by Veteran
Nah, I don't think so. If I were the only anti-HA advocate, perhaps, but I think a lot of people can imagine a better PlanetSide where Surge, Heavy Assault and exploitation doesn't equal leaderboard dominance.
There may very well be other people who have those same desires, but it doesn't matter. The game was obviously designed to have HA as a major part of play. I don't see this ever changing. So either you guys just live with it, or like I said, play another game. I highly doubt even close to the majority of players would vote to remove HA.
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #69
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'Love it or leave it' doesn't apply here. I can debate the validity of my point all I want without having to make the decision to leave PlanetSide behind in favor of my idealism.

I'm just here to discuss my opinion of the ideal. No need to talk about leaving the game.
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #70
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Meh, I believe that the entire point of HA is that it's weapons should be balanced detween two thing. The first of these things is that HA weapons should be a bit more powerful than MA weapons. No one's going to invest 4 Cert points into a weapon that is not any better than cheaper Cert weapons are. Therefore, it should be logical to Support Role players and Pilots that MA will be a better choice for them, as they can thus get more support/vehicular certs, but that HA players will own them, at least at close range, the majority of the time. The second balancing factor is that HA should not be a requirement for a soldier who is into doing primarily wet-work. Soldiers should be able to own HA with MA some of the time, but mostly at medium-long range, because HA is specifically designed for close range encounters.
First and foremost, I believe that Surge should be adjusted in order to prevent Surge monkeys from dominating less aggressive players. Flame me if you want (and at your own risk), but I think that Surge should not work while a player has a weapon in his hand. Second, I believe that, when one MA player and one HA player face off, and those players are of equal skill, the win ratios should look something like this:

Within 5 meters, HA should win 85% of the time.
Within 15 meters, HA should win 60% of the time.
Within 30 meters, HA should win 45% of the time.
Beyond 50 meters, HA should win about 15% of the time.

I believe that those win ratios will help equalize, at least within fairness, MA and HA. Provided, of course, that the above change to Surge is nade, and that the adjustments to varoius weapons provided below will be included.
The problem with the Jackhammer, as I see it, is that it was designed with a different premise than the other 2 HA weapons in mind. Both the Lasher and the Mini-Chaingun are more designed to provide light suppression fire at moiderate range, and to be quite powerful within the range of 10 meters. The Jackahammer, however, is designed to be useless outside 10 meters, and utterly overpowering within 5, especially because of the 'Trip-Shot'. Therefore, I propose that the Jackhammer be ditched in favor of creating an entirely different New Conglomerate HA gun. Thus I propose the Kinetically Charged Railgun, or the KCR.

KCR

Description: The MACE is a large rifle that is quite similiar to the Gauss in concept. It fires a small, tubular projectile that is magnetically accelerated to very high speeds. Rather than having any explosive force, the KCR's rounds rely solely on massive kinetic force to damage targets, hence the name. It is shaped much like the M-16 of today's military, and is the size of an ordinary rifle.

Specs:
RoF: 1 shot per .75 seconds (80 rounds per minute).
CoF: Moderately large while standing, very small when crouched.
Damage: 80
Ammunition Packs: These are the size of a normal packet, and carry 15 rounds, as does the gun itself when equipped from the EQ terminal.
Gun size: As mentioned above, the KCR takes up inventory space equal to all current HA weaponry.


Comments, questions, flames? Bring 'em on.
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #71
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Originally Posted by Veteran
'Love it or leave it' doesn't apply here. I can debate the validity of my point all I want without having to make the decision to leave PlanetSide behind in favor of my idealism.

I'm just here to discuss my opinion of the ideal. No need to talk about leaving the game.
Ok, fair enough. You're obviously entitled to debate things however you want. I'm still trying to find any validity in your point though
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Old 2004-02-09, 01:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #72
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Originally Posted by TheN00b
The problem with the Jackhammer, as I see it, is that it was designed with a different premise than the other 2 HA weapons in mind. Both the Lasher and the Mini-Chaingun are more designed to provide light suppression fire at moiderate range, and to be quite powerful within the range of 10 meters. The Jackahammer, however, is designed to be useless outside 10 meters, and utterly overpowering within 5, especially because of the 'Trip-Shot'.
3 different empires, 3 different themes, 3 different weapons.

Jack fits nicely into the Hit hard NC theme, and no where does it say empire specific weapons of different empires should be similiar, infact it should be quite the opisite.

While a Rail gun is a sweet weapon, it is a ranged weapon, a very far ranged weapon. HA is not suppoe to be ranged and would offset balance to have a weapon that fires far and hits (bites?) harder then Mike Tyson. Plus, a rail gun is some High Tech stuff and the NC are the Junk Yard warrior empire, it really doesn't fit their theme.
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Old 2004-02-09, 02:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #73
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Originally Posted by SpunkJackel
SA - not for close up face2face fighting

MA - except for the sweeper, the weapons here are not meant for point blank action

MAX - Good for infantry/air suppression, but lack's versitality and quik movement.

So, we lose HA and we have a big gap in weapon slection. There is nothing that can be used effectively indoors or at close quarters fighting. You may say " WRONG N00B, ther is the sweeper!!!" the sweaper can be constantly out preformed by empire specfic MA, even at face2face range. That's why a peson spends 4 CERTS on the big guns so they can beat empire specific up close. Then you may say again "WRONG N00B, Max's own up close!!!" While a max can be effective up close it is rather easy to take one out and is is most often the first thing to fall. Not to mention you can't do anything else as a MAX except shoot, no hack, no eng, and no med.
During early Beta when HA was trash we didn't have any problem using MA weapons like the Cycler indoors. I think you're very much incorrect in saying the MA weapons except for Sweeper weren't meant for point blank fighting. The Rocklet is also good at close ranged, and given the range of the Thumper it's decent for support in close combat too. All that HA does is overshadow and destroy all of the other weapons indoors. It's the BFG of Planetside, only you start with it automatically. I'm kind of tired of battles being decided by who can rush more HA users into the fight than the other guy.

Taking HA from Planetisde is like taking skates from Ice Hockey. Sure the game can still work but everyone becomes instagibbed.

Really, if you guys have a problem with somthing so core to the game as the HA weapons then maybe this is not the game for you. HA is somehing that has always been at will always be. You can try, but I don't think you can change it.
It's possible for HA to be removed or redone. I think it's a deterimental aspect of the game and believe more good would come out of it being reworked or removed than if it were to stay in. One weapon designed to completely dominate all other weapons in the most important and most common types of fights (indoors and close range) just isn't good. If we talk about it enough, maybe we can get the devs to talk about it too, and maybe they'll see it how we do.
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Old 2004-02-09, 02:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #74
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Jackel, I happen to think that it is quite unfair that the majority of fighting takes place inside, and that the Jackhammer has the obvious advantage over the other two in that setting. As for your problems with the KCR's lack of theme with the 'Cong ideas, think of this as very different from a normal 'railgun'. Like I referred to in the post, this is not high-tech at all: It is powered entirely by kinetic energy, and would probably be possible for military forces of our time to create, albeit slightly less powerful. You're right, nothing says that Empire-Specific weapons have to be similiar because they are part of the same Cert. But nowhere does it state that one Empire has the right to have a severe advantage in the predominant fighting arena.
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Old 2004-02-09, 02:35 PM   [Ignore Me] #75
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My thoughts as a relative PS newbie: I initially tried using the JH because I thought having a weapon like that would help me learn the ropes of the game a little. I didn't warp intentionally and I never used the 4-shot. I found that I died very, very often. So often, that I basically gave up on grunt work and considered only using vehicles from now.

Recently I gave the Gauss a try. The difference was incredible; with Gauss and Rexo I racked up kills at least twice as fast as when I was using the Hammer, and I even get a free cert point that way. Overall, I don't think the Hammer is just that great. Fix the obvious exploits (warping and 4-shotting) and the whole thing looks really tame.

And personally, I think the gameplay with MA is also much more interesting: If you kill someone that way, instead of just having out-twitched your enemy you actually feel you used better tactics than them to take them down.
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