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Old 2004-02-13, 02:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Warborn
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MAX Timers


I've been playing as a MAX recently (when the lag allows me to play half-decently) and I think I've gained some respect for MAX users. The Decimator will kill you in two hits, and virtually everyone has one. That plus the 5 minute timer on MAX armor makes me realize how awesome the Uni-MAX change was.

So, I'm not really sure the 5 minute MAX reequip timer is going to be such a good idea anymore, now that the Decimator being moved to AV and AV itself is being buffed. We will definitely be seeing even more Decimators, in addition to more stand AV, after the next patch. Not to mention that the added ammo for AV will see people being a bit more liberal when choosing their targets. For instance, before the Striker's lock-on was changed so that I had to lock before I could fire, I used to save my Striker ammo for aircraft and not bother with MAXs unless they were an immidiate threat. Had I 3x the ammo I will come the next patch, I'd certainly be more willing to fire off a couple rounds into a MAX too.

I'm thinking that something needs to change, and I think it should be the MAX timers. With how easy it is to kill MAXs, I'd personally like to see the MAX timer reduced significantly. Say, 2 minutes, or even 1 minute, instead of the regular 5 minutes. MAXs aren't that hard to kill anymore, and with the AV change you'll be seeing a lot more Strikers and (more accurate) Lancers, and maybe a couple more Phoenixes, though they're already pretty popular. Without relaxing the restrictions on MAX armor, I think MAX users will be getting the short end of the stick with this patch.

Oh, and just to elaborate on why I'd opt for a timer at all, an individual being able to sit at an inventory terminal, cycling through his MAX armor, would be nearly unkillable. You'd be forced to destroy the terminal and then kill the MAX guy. So there has to be some timer, I just don't think 5 minutes is justified anymore.
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Old 2004-02-13, 06:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
2mthsTheSniper
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I've only been playing a few weeks, so don't know anything about 'the good old times' but I've just given up my TR UniMAX because it's just not worth bothering with. You get killed too quickly and can't actually inflict enough damage to kill anyone unless you are lucky enough to go 1 on 1. The only excetion is the AA, which apart from being near impossible to hit Libs with is actually quite good fun. I might buy that on it's own later on, but not the AI or AV (which really sucks).

The timers just make this situation worse. I see why they need to be there, but I think perhaps a shorter time for the AA at least (as it's really no use against inf - ie in a siege situation) might be a good move for players. Nothing more annoying than having a Reaver camped outside a tower and having to wait minutes between attempts to fight it (you don't last long in a stream of their rockets).
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Old 2004-02-13, 10:02 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
JakeLogan
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Sniper believe it or not MAXS do take some skill to use. and when you finally do get good with them. you will be able to take alot of people down with you. (Thank god they are making the DC AI again I dropped the Pounder because it was generating to much grief.)
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Old 2004-02-13, 10:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
UncleDynamite
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Good point, Warborn, the timers need to go down dramatically. I think 2 minutes is a reasonable change. As for 2mths, the TR MAXes are going to get some considerable improvements very soon
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Old 2004-02-13, 10:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
Krinsath
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I believe the MAX timers should be re-worked as well. First, 5 minutes is a bit excessive...that's the same timer as a tank has (which for a vehicle I feel is about right) but a MAX is *nowhere* near as durable as a tank. Sure, the Uni-MAX gives you other suits you can wear to pass the time, but I think most people will agree that the MAXes are horribly inefficient against things they're not designed to take out (and in the case of AV MAXes...against their intended target).

2.5-3 minutes seems a bit better, especially since in heavy fighting that will still be a significant penalty.

With Uni-MAX we saw a surge of MAX users, but that just caused everyone to cert SA and both non-VS factions settled out on their MAX numbers. In fact, the TR rarely have MAXes anymore (which is the reason for the current changes) so it's hard to judge, but I really do not even see NC MAXes in significant numbers. The boosts to AV make me wonder if even Uni-MAX will be enough to keep non-purple people in MAXes without some other change...which is a shame as MAX suits are kind of a neat idea.

If they kept the durability the same, I really wouldn't mind seeing the MAXes be slightly more powerful...
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Old 2004-02-13, 10:37 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
SilverLord
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I used to play a VS UniMax guy and thought that timer needed to go. I believe and agree with Warborn on the subject but I also believe the only MAXes worth getting are VS MAXes until the new patch.

And another things, why does our AA max no longer do slash damage but the VS AA max still has plasma damage to infantry and the NC AA max still has their slash damage? Kinda weird if you ask me. Maybe it's because the flak travels so fast?
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Old 2004-02-13, 10:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
Jagd
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Equipment module reduces MAX timers a fair bit. Any more reductions could get right stupid, cause I do *not* want to have to kill that same bloody Quasar every 2 minutes. The main thing most MAX users do wrong is rush out there like they have unlimited armor, when as we all know 650 armor doesn't amount to much when your opponent packs a decimator like 3 out of 4 players seem to. Treat your MAX like you would a vehicle-- travel with an engineer, be cautious, don't get caught in the open, etc, etc.

I tend to reserve MAX favourites for defense, or when I can hack a terminal in an enemy base. Being outdoors in a MAX (other than the anti-air units) is pretty much a guaranteed way to get owned. You are just not fast or maneuverable enough to compete out there, and you are faced with the fact that AV weapons (including the deci) excel at medium-long range, whereas the AV and AI MAXes are pretty much useless beyond short range. Sure, a Dual-Cycler can tickle you from 200m, but he sure isn't landing enough bullets to actually bring you down. And let's not forget vehicles; other than ATVs and maybe a smoking Harasser, vehicles can squish MAXes like jackhammers rip through spawning troops.
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Old 2004-02-13, 10:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
Madcow
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You have to be very careful with the timers, though. During tower defense in big siege situations I'm the suicidal AA MAX making a run to the top of the tower to take out 2 of the rocket spamming Reavers before people can react and deci me. That's a fair trade to me, but if I'm able to churn out another AA MAX pretty quickly there's actually a chance that all aircraft could be cleared out without much issue. Without Reavers spamming the doors, that's one giant piece of the tower siege that the rest of the people in the tower don't have to concern themselves with. I would say making it anything less than 3 minutes is a mistake.
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Old 2004-02-13, 11:05 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
Krinsath
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I guess the issue here is that Uni-MAX is 5 certs, the most expensive single cert in the game. Sure, MAXes are quite powerful, but you're restricted in a lot of ways too. That in itself is almost balanced, but throwing in the 5 minute equipment timers is really painful. It's possible to get killed in a very short time as a MAX because you really have no way of evading these faster infantry. Doesn't matter what kind of support you bring along in those situations. So the built-in limitations of being a MAX are already a debatable balance.

But on the other side of the coin, you can't simply go the other way and remove that timer entirely, as that would give the MAX users way too much power. Two to three minutes though would be a happy medium, especially now that AV has gotten such a boost.

For example, a Phoenix before could easily carry enough ammo (meaning, not have to take up entire inventory with Phoenix ammo) to take down 3 MAXes, so seeing one every two minutes would be awful (2 minute timer X 15 minute base hack = 7 possible MAX suits...and 7>3). Now they can carry enough to take down 9, so it isn't nearly as bad (2x15=7...but 7<9). Since most of the MAX weapons that do splash damage have had the AI damage reduced, it won't hurt the infantry so much. Pilots, perhaps they'll get hammered more often, but it will eventually occur to them that they can't just park their aircraft stationary over the enemy.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 2004-02-13, 11:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Does the speed module affect the MAX timer?
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Old 2004-02-13, 11:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
Jagd
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Nope, just footspeed and respawn timers.

http://planetside.station.sony.com/c...at/ancient.jsp
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Old 2004-02-13, 11:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
Queensidecastle
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I agree with Warborns original assesment and have been saying that MAXs are too vunerable for months, but I think the Uni-MAX cert is the way around the timer. That cert almost always ensures you are in a MAX suit. I think Decimators need to do less damage to MAXs and that is how I would handle it
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Old 2004-02-13, 11:47 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
Gigabein
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(I've said this before) Deci damage is too over-powering vs. max. My suggestion is to require 3 direct hits, and 4-5 if it's splash dmg. So many people carry deci's that this would hopefully give maxes a more balanced chance of surviving without hamstringing infantry.
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Old 2004-02-13, 11:50 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
Jagd
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No no no. If they do that, they need to increase it to 5 rockets per decimator. It takes up a whole row of agile inventory space, it had better be a guaranteed MAX kill with one tube.
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Old 2004-02-13, 11:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #15
Gigabein
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It is guaranteed. You just have to land all 3 shots. And since when should an Agile stand a good chance against a MAX?!
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