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Old 2003-02-05, 10:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #61
glsauron
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actually submachineguns are used because they are more compact and manuevrable, and have lower recoil.
You do realize that a pistol has more recoil then a rifle because the force is the same (for same round) and it's spread over a lot smaller mass?

Take a rifle and a pistol and compare them.


As for the issue in PS, the NC are gonna rock inside of buildings. Especially the MAX. Variable shot pattern and high dmg from any of them. Stealth hacker with a scatter-pistol is gonna be deadly.
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Old 2003-02-05, 10:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #62
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wow man, that really means a lot to me, and i surely will look you up. Thx
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Old 2003-02-06, 12:35 PM   [Ignore Me] #63
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All this talk about CQB is interesting but everyone is missing the point. A close quarters situation is all about teamwork. Having a pointman, making sure everyone watches the assigned field of fire, having not only a shotgun, but SMGs or Assault Rifles, Frag Grenades for corners, and a big ole missle for that MAX that you know is in there. I wanna see some comboy with a shotgun, or a Knife go toe-to-toe with those big SOBs. Course it could work, since none of us have played the game, we could all be wrong.
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Old 2003-02-06, 12:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #64
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Originally posted by Madprofessor9
[BWhen I was shot in bosnia in 94 2 times by a 7.62mm from a ak I really didn't feel the first round. After the second one hit me in my lower side I realised I was hit. [/B]
Your other post said 96. Which was it?
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Old 2003-02-06, 04:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #65
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sorry It was a typo was feburary 13 1996, I was discharged in on march 17th after recovery. I appogize for the typo
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Old 2003-02-06, 04:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #66
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I can't believe people still think headshot and hit boxes are all about luck. I agree there is a measure of luck involved when there is a random headshot, but in general shots to the head are aimed.

Well in CS at least.

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Old 2003-02-06, 05:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #67
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You do realize that a pistol has more recoil then a rifle because the force is the same (for same round) and it's spread over a lot smaller mass?
I'm not sure exactly what your trying to say but none of the ways i can interpret this are correct

Pistol have higher recoil then rifles: really depends on the pistol/rifle, mass comes into play only in the fact of mass of the gun vs the force of the bullets explosive charge (minus any recoil absorbing equipment in the gun)

Pistol rounds and rifle rounds are drasticly different, pistol rounds are heavier with much less powder, and the powder is really what matters when it comes to determining recoil.

Submachine guns (which is what i was talking about i don't know why your quoting me and then saying pistols) have a much higher mass compared to its ammunition then rifles. The MP5s that the police use have very little recoil.

As for a shotgun slug having the same power of a 20mm minigun system I don't have any personal knowledge of that but Its highly questionable, considering the recoil would probably break you shoulder if not do worse. considering a .50 cal is 12mm and used in a rifle has been known to cause shoulder injury to shooters not trained for it, a 20mm which is almost twice as powerful should not the same as the gun most commonly used by least trained of shooters (slug shotguns are the favorite weapon of the casual sportsman.
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Old 2003-02-06, 06:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #68
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I still haven't seen the link to the dev chat that said there are no headshots. Please link this.
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Old 2003-02-06, 07:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #69
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As the caliber of a round grows, the volume of the cartridge grows with caliber^3 (roughly) if the proportions are the same. This would mean that if you double the caliber, the volume of the round would increase 8 times (2x2x2). The energy of the bullet would be proportional to the volume of the gunpowder that explodes (more powder == more energy).

A 20mm caliber is 1.67 times wider than a .50. 1.67^3 == 4.66.

I.e, a 20mm caliber has roughly 4.5 times the kinetic energy of a .50 cal round. This is of course a rough approximation. There are more things that affect this.

And of course a shotgun comes no where close to 20mm cannon rounds.
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Old 2003-02-06, 07:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #70
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Here's link to a thread I found where SmokeJumper says there are no hit locations.

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/p...ML/001729.html
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Old 2003-02-06, 07:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #71
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Rawr!!

You know what, I honestly don't think I'll spend $10 a month on a game that doesn't even include the most basic modern advances like hit-boxes.

I'll wait for the next MMOFPS. I honestly will. I'll survive with smaller multiplayer games, or just books if I have to. Just because PS is the first in it's genre, doesn't mean it will be the best, and as long as I've waited for this game, a few more years wont matter as much as it should.

I'm sorry, but I'm very adiment on this point. Maybe I should try to get back into DAoC and try to find a class I like.

If Planetside remains without headshots, it will be farewell to you all, my outfit, and my confidence in smokejumper as a dev.
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Old 2003-02-06, 08:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #72
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Wow, that's completely sad. You think that headshot's are that important? And to insult a man for doing his job? I honestly hope that you are just playing around.

You should at least apologize to dave for saying something so callous. His job is to make this game as good and succesful as it can be, and removing hit boxes does that. Not only does it reduce lag, it makes the game more strategic, newbie friendly, and faster paced.

With a cone of fire system used, headshots are far less useful at the ranges that fighting will mostly be occuring at. This makes the battles stay at those distances. I personally belive that strategy is made and broken by distance. If I have 1 mile between our groups, I can use many different strategies to approach you, and hopefully obtain an earned advantage. However, if our groups are just around the corner from each other, and headshots were in, then skill would always win.

The only times it would be useful would be inside, and then vets would own newbies too easily to make a learning curve slight enough for an MMOG, or newbie-friendly, which makes the MMOG world go 'round, and sniping, where the snipers take full advantage of it. Plus, snipers will probably be firing from longer distances than in most other games, so the cone of fire would still be too large to let you neccesarily hit the head that you are aiming at. So, it would be luck aiming for the head at distance, not necessarily completely skill.

Another thing is that headshots slow cone of fire games down. To obtain the headshot you HAVE to kneel, and if everyone kneels to get headshots, it turns into the whole p-word argument again (OMG I'm not going through that bull again).

With the cone, headshots WOULD become more of a luck issue, because random head shot would happen more often.

But if you seriously feel that way, then maybe you need to refrain from doing a lot of work any time soon. You sound like you are on the edge.

Anyway, man, its just a game, be respectful to others, and try to look at the situation from another point of view. It'll still be a good game, even without headshots, heck you never know, it may be better.
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Last edited by Duritz; 2003-02-06 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 2003-02-06, 08:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #73
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Originally posted by SandTrout
You know what, I honestly don't think I'll spend $10 a month on a game that doesn't even include the most basic modern advances like hit-boxes.
Whoa man, at least drop by one of our houses and play it first before you decide. You may be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 2003-02-06, 08:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #74
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Originally posted by Duritz
The only times it would be useful would be inside, and then vets would own newbies too easily
I'm not sure I buy this or not. While I see how it would be a bigger problem than smaller games, I don't see this being a huge problem. I've never had a problem getting into any game because the vets were too good... well... unless I'm playing on SPD's server... then Sandman tends to kick my ass pretty hard.... or Bullet-Tooth.... damn those guys are good....

*edit* - btw - I've talking about SoF2:CTF above.
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Old 2003-02-06, 09:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #75
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I'm 100% seriouse. Some games don't need headshots to be fun, but in this kind of game I consider it important. Maybe i'm being too picky, but haveing to settle is realy starting to blow.

What I said about Dave may be harsh, but I think Tribes 2 could have been a much better game than it was. I loved Tribes 1, and was addicted to it for a couple of years. Tribes 2...well...yeah. I know it was probably the fault of marketing, but either way I'm makeing a stand. I'm not going to buy any games that end up removeing something that was allready implemented just so they can make the god-damned leaning curve easier.

The removed headshots from the game. Its not that they're just decideing that it's not worth the effort, but they think that it will help the sell more at the expence of gameplay. I don't want to sacrifice any more gameplay to Marketing and Management. If the game takes another year to be released, I'm fine with that, they are makeing it better. However, I draw the line at when they make an effort to remove a signifigant factor from the game.

I'm just growing tired of dealing with crap like this. Mods that are f***ing hoaxes, lack of cheat protection that seems almost intetional, and now this. Just be honest and you wont piss me off, because when I'm pissed off, I'll do my best to convice you it't not worth doing again.

Ranting, it does a body good.
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