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Old 2004-09-11, 01:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #46
Lartnev
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I think both the Sparrow and Starfire may have had clip reductions at some point, not sure if that was before or after you left. Phalanx turrets rarely worry reavers, even when they're manned since rockets > phalanx (and that's with the phalanx getting the jump on the reaver)
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Old 2004-09-11, 03:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #47
Madcow
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Please don't mention the Sparrow, Starfire or Striker at the moment as feasible defenses. At least not until they pull their heads out and get rid of the crippling lock on bugs.
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Old 2004-09-11, 04:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #48
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quit using teh skyguard to back up your argument for keeping teh reaver as it is. you can only get them if you have a tech plant, and that doesnt always happen. when you are trying to get out of a tower, a reaver camping it is enough to make it impossible. as for teh aa max.. yeah, keep that out of it till lock on problems are solved.
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Old 2004-09-12, 12:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
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Originally Posted by ihatetheNC
quit using teh skyguard to back up your argument for keeping teh reaver as it is. you can only get them if you have a tech plant, and that doesnt always happen. when you are trying to get out of a tower, a reaver camping it is enough to make it impossible. as for teh aa max.. yeah, keep that out of it till lock on problems are solved.
Hmmm, if I'm correct, a reaver can only be obtained at a tech plant and dropship center... seems like that argument is void. And the skyguard is what it is, a counter to the reaver. Planetside is all about counters, like a huge massive game of rock paper scissors. Do you complain every time a heavy tank kills you when you're in a buggy? Do you cry when you get raped by an AI max while in your Rexo? Again, argument void.
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Old 2004-09-12, 12:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
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Originally Posted by KiKiNCHiKiN
Hmmm, if I'm correct, a reaver can only be obtained at a tech plant and dropship center... seems like that argument is void. And the skyguard is what it is, a counter to the reaver. Planetside is all about counters, like a huge massive game of rock paper scissors. Do you complain every time a heavy tank kills you when you're in a buggy? Do you cry when you get raped by an AI max while in your Rexo? Again, argument void.
you can get reavers anywhere as long as theres a tech plant on the continent, or the facility is linked to a tech plant, I forget.
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Old 2004-09-12, 12:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
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Originally Posted by JetRaiden
you can get reavers anywhere as long as theres a tech plant on the continent, or the facility is linked to a tech plant, I forget.
Yeah, I forgot that too. Regardless, the point I was making was that the skyguard and the reaver have the same requisites for acquirement.
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Old 2004-09-12, 02:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
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Originally Posted by KiKiNCHiKiN
Yeah, I forgot that too. Regardless, the point I was making was that the skyguard and the reaver have the same requisites for acquirement.
Skyguard requires two people, isn't airborne, doesn't have easy access to rearm/repair terminals, isn't designed to kill every possible target in the game like the reaver (it's made for an actual niche purpose) and there are some concerns over its ammo capacity as well for the flak weapon. If you're suggesting the skyguard is an effective counterweight to the reaver, despite all the negatives associated with the skyguard compared to the reaver, you're playing a different game than the rest of us. Reavers not only combine the ability to excel in all but the most AA-laden battlefields, they also have many luxuries associated with them due to the fact that they're aircraft. Regardless of how a reaver fares against a single skyguard, skyguards have so much negative baggage attached to them that it doesn't make a difference, because they are not an enjoyable or rewarding vehicle to use most of the time, and thus, people don't use them often.

Despite some of the posts in this thread, it's a forgone conclusion that the reaver will be rebalanced in the future. I think people should avoid straying from the topic of how this rebalancing will be done, rather than whether it should be done or not, because if the surge change (and other alterations) are any indication, the reaver's days as the all-purpose, easy-access, silver-spooned fighting vehicle are numbered.

Last edited by Warborn; 2004-09-12 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 2004-09-12, 03:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #53
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So threads of this topic are common? Hell, if you think the thing is unbalanced now, you should have played pre-BP. In my personal opinion, which is apparently very different from everyone else in PS, the reaver's AI ability isn't that great. And that seems to be what everyone is complaining about. I understand that one could be frustrated that the reaver kills a single target (the player doing the bitchin') in a short amount of time, (relatively short anyway), but overall it's not an effective AI tool. Its limited ammo and weak armor make it a vehicle that can only be used for a short period before requiring reloading/repairing, if the pilot is lucky/skilled enough to keep it alive to that point.

Now, about the skyguard. Yes, it does require two people, isn't as glamorous to operate, etc, but if adequately equipped and manned, it is unstoppable against aircraft. I don't see how one can argue that something is overpowered when there are plenty of counters to it. Yes the counters may require preparations/manpower that is more difficult to find. Tough. Planetside is a team game, use your teammates.

Again, I emphasize that my opinions/knowledge may be skewed due to the fact I haven't played heavily since March, and only played sparsely in May, so I am going by what I knew in the past and what I have heard via forums and friends.
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Old 2004-09-12, 04:09 AM   [Ignore Me] #54
Warborn
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Who cares what it was like before? What does that have to do with how it is now? Right now the reaver requires tweaking. If you don't play the game, and you don't play infantry a lot, you have no idea about how often reaver spam occurs, and no idea how much it detracts from the overall experience.

Now, about the skyguard. Yes, it does require two people, isn't as glamorous to operate, etc, but if adequately equipped and manned, it is unstoppable against aircraft. I don't see how one can argue that something is overpowered when there are plenty of counters to it. Yes the counters may require preparations/manpower that is more difficult to find. Tough. Planetside is a team game, use your teammates.
Your comment demonstrates yet another reason why reavers should be nerfed. What good does it do for so much power to be invested into a single-man vehicle which only encourages a lack of team-play?

At least BFRs will have a 45 minute reacquisition timer to make solo, uncoordinated play with them something that'll leave you with half an hour of waiting, at least. If reavers were more properly implimented, Planetside would be a much better team game, because then solo players wouldn't have an all-in-wonder vehicle to use and abuse to their heart's content. Even if only for the sake of better teamplay, the reaver needs to be nerfed.


PS: You really walked right into that one.

Last edited by Warborn; 2004-09-12 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 2004-09-12, 04:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #55
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Yes, somewhat. Anyway, I'm done, it's late.
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Old 2004-09-12, 11:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #56
WritheNC
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I think Air Cav will be balanced fine once the lock on bugs are fixed.

Air Cav is not going to get nerfed any more. People have been complaining for months and months and there is no change to it, nor will there be one.

The same arguments have been repeated over and over and I don't think the Devs have seen anything convincing enough to warrant a nerf.
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Old 2004-09-12, 02:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #57
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I agree. I dont think anything will change. If the devs were to do anything, I could see an ever so slitght nerf to rocket damage to infantry and more damage to vehicles. I dont think any of that is necessary however
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Old 2004-09-12, 03:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #58
Warborn
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Originally Posted by WritheNC
I think Air Cav will be balanced fine once the lock on bugs are fixed.

Air Cav is not going to get nerfed any more. People have been complaining for months and months and there is no change to it, nor will there be one.

The same arguments have been repeated over and over and I don't think the Devs have seen anything convincing enough to warrant a nerf.
1) We have a new lead designer now, and thus a new concept of what is convincing enough. With luck, Samhayan will have a better vision for each of the vehicles than the previous lead designers, as theirs have quite frankly sucked, leaving us with a plethora of shitty, useless vehicles and a handful of ones which actually get some reasonable action on the battlefield.

2) Discounting the idea that the previous lead designers felt the reaver was ok, it's not like glaring oversights have slipped past them before. How long did it take to get suge changed? How long before the standard assault weapons were considered an actual part of the game and something that should be balanced too? I can only imagine what other oversights will be addressed in the coming months, but over a year after release is absolutely not an unreasonable amount of time for something as stupid as the current reaver balance to exist without being even noticed as out of place.
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Old 2004-09-13, 10:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #59
WritheNC
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1) We have a new lead designer now, and thus a new concept of what is convincing enough. With luck, Samhayan will have a better vision for each of the vehicles than the previous lead designers, as theirs have quite frankly sucked, leaving us with a plethora of shitty, useless vehicles and a handful of ones which actually get some reasonable action on the battlefield.
Just cuz he is lead designer doesn't mean they will change their minds. Sure, he might have a fresh point of view, but he won't be there long if he plans on hammering in his own vision without consent of the rest of the team.

But you're right about the second part, half of the vehicles in the game don't do jack or are too specialized.

There are a lot of ways to combat AA, but it's not the devs' fault if nobody uses them(Although part of the problem is sitting in an AA max on air guard is boring, and flying in Air Cav is fun, which is a big reason for the disproportion).
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Old 2004-09-13, 11:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #60
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Originally Posted by WritheNC
There are a lot of ways to combat AA, but it's not the devs' fault if nobody uses them(Although part of the problem is sitting in an AA max on air guard is boring, and flying in Air Cav is fun, which is a big reason for the disproportion).
The Skyguard is fundamentally flawed by it's lack of armor. 2 mines blows up a Skyguard, as a CE infil I can tell you that I've personally blown up a good number of the Skyguards that I've seen out there. I'll go out of my way to go after them since they're so easy to kill. The flak/machine gun combo is nice, the speed is great, the armor is a critical flaw. It should be able to take more of a beating to make it near impossible for Reavers to take it out (it's difficult now, you have to take it by surprise). You should need to roll heavy armor to blast the Skyguard, thus encouraging more of the rock/paper/scissors aspect. Personally, I love gunning the Skyguard probably more than any other vehicle. Unfortunately, even with a good driver your ride is so short it's just ridiculous.
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