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Old 2011-08-12, 12:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #46
Talek Krell
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Whether cloakers are effective at their jobs seems like a different topic altogether.
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Old 2011-08-12, 12:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #47
Goku
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Only thing I can think of is keeping the original suit with high mobility/stealth. Adding the additional armor will slow you down, make you more visible, and make implants use more stam as with agile vs rexo. Not sure to how much of a extent these will effect a cloaker or how much the armor helps. One way with everything on you move like a rexo and when even doing the crouch slow walk that will make you as visible almost as the current cloaker when running around, but you will still be invisible totally when you stop moving. The way I see it is the head/chest is the best for protection, but being heavier causes the issues mentioned above. I do see this similar to your current idea/sniper one, but cloaker is still at least stuck with only a pistol slot. Wouldn't of thought of this otherwise. I could go into this idea more, but I honestly do not know if it would even help cloakers that much as I really never used the suit.

Last edited by Goku; 2011-08-12 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 2011-08-12, 12:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #48
Peacemaker
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Ya keep going back to the same things. Cloaker sucks in a heavy fire fight. Cloaker can't fight. Cloaker can't do this. The role is specialised. It does a niche very well (and will be better if they fix gama sploits and what not). Your also totally ignoring what a ton of people said already. Sensor shield implant + MA + Agile > Worse than agile, worse than MA, built in sensor shield. WHY would you want that? Because its not classified as a "grunt"?

The suit you propose would likely take some decent training time, so why not leave it out, train a few skills for the Sensor shield, MA, and Agile, and save the time. Basicly what your asking for exsists in PS1 already, and requires 2 cert points to pick up MA.

What you want is akin to asking for an agile armor that's slow like rexo, has 2 MA weapon slots, less inventory, and less armor than rexo. It wouldn't be OP it would be gimped.
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Old 2011-08-12, 12:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #49
Huma
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Originally Posted by Talek Krell View Post
Whether cloakers are effective at their jobs seems like a different topic altogether.
Actually it's part of the basis for the post. As I explained above cloakers are losing ALOT of functionality in PS2 based off what we know of the role system. What their left with is flipping buildings. Considering the size of the battles to come and the cloakers ineffectiveness in large scale building fights even their hacking ability will be highly limited.
To be effective they'll have to go grunt til the fight is over or cools off. Effectively making them into a key an nothing more. I'm just making a suggestion based off the available information.
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Old 2011-08-12, 12:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #50
Huma
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Originally Posted by Peacemaker View Post
Ya keep going back to the same things. Cloaker sucks in a heavy fire fight. Cloaker can't fight. Cloaker can't do this. The role is specialised. It does a niche very well (and will be better if they fix gama sploits and what not). Your also totally ignoring what a ton of people said already. Sensor shield implant + MA + Agile > Worse than agile, worse than MA, built in sensor shield. WHY would you want that? Because its not classified as a "grunt"?

The suit you propose would likely take some decent training time, so why not leave it out, train a few skills for the Sensor shield, MA, and Agile, and save the time. Basicly what your asking for exsists in PS1 already, and requires 2 cert points to pick up MA.

What you want is akin to asking for an agile armor that's slow like rexo, has 2 MA weapon slots, less inventory, and less armor than rexo. It wouldn't be OP it would be gimped.
At least there would be something. As far as we know no other role will have the ability to hack. Considering that base fights arent going to happen as much and if their to hot a cloaker isn't going to be able to hack...their pretty much hosed. What's the point in specializing in something that you aren't going to use 75% of the time?
So far we're not going to be able to heal/repair others, hack anything but a building, and CE is up in the air. It doesn't leave us with much and what's left is only useful on rare occasions. What do you think they could do to help cloakers hold up a little better in a fire fight? Because just switching defeats the purpose of having a cloaker
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Old 2011-08-12, 01:19 AM   [Ignore Me] #51
exLupo
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


I keep seeing this from a BF perspective.
1) Pick a role at spawn:
a) Heavy
- Armor option: Agile / Rexo (unlocked)
- Weapon: SA / MA (unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked) / HA (Unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked)
- Specialty Slot 1: Blah
- Specialty Slot 2: Blah
- Implants: A B C or D
b) Medic
- Armor option: Agile
- Weapon: SA / MA (unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked)
- Slot 1: Advanced Medic Tool
- Slot 2: Blah
- Implants: A B C or E
c) Infil
- Armor Option: Agile / Infil suit (unlocked)
- Weapon: SA / MA (unlocked) + Mods (Unlocked)
- Slot 1: Advanced REK
- Slot 2: Radar Cloak (tying it into the thread)
- Implants: B C D or F
D...) Sniper... and on like that.

The point being that you need to bring an infil for whatever kinky hacking stuff they'll have. Simply dumping infil for another role because it can't join the fight would be a failing in the design as a whole. Need those terms hacked? You'll probably need an infil. As such, infils will need to be able to join the party. However, if all non-heavy roles are limited to agile or specialist agile+ variants (see: ghillie thread) then an infil or medic with associated utility tools in agile will be the indoor standard for support roles.

Could you bring a cloaked infil? Sure, but then you'd lose out on a MA (SA?) shooter for a non-combatant who is also more vulnerable to stray and area fire. If Agile and MA are baseline trainable options for all roles, supports (medic, infil, sniper) included then relegating secondary abilities to utility slots is a natural evolution.

What I see in this thread is the automatic assumption that Infil Skill Tree = Cloak Only and I don't think that's exactly how the role system is going to be set up. Giving everyone an Agile+MA baseline goes a long way to making support skillsets viable in more situations. It allows infantry support roles the freedom to specialize and actually spawn as that support role. Ultimately, it preserves role diversity and I don't see any problems with that.
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Last edited by exLupo; 2011-08-12 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 2011-08-12, 02:29 AM   [Ignore Me] #52
Huma
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Originally Posted by Goku View Post
Only thing I can think of is keeping the original suit with high mobility/stealth. Adding the additional armor will slow you down, make you more visible, and make implants use more stam as with agile vs rexo. Not sure to how much of a extent these will effect a cloaker or how much the armor helps. One way with everything on you move like a rexo and when even doing the crouch slow walk that will make you as visible almost as the current cloaker when running around, but you will still be invisible totally when you stop moving. The way I see it is the head/chest is the best for protection, but being heavier causes the issues mentioned above. I do see this similar to your current idea/sniper one, but cloaker is still at least stuck with only a pistol slot. Wouldn't of thought of this otherwise. I could go into this idea more, but I honestly do not know if it would even help cloakers that much as I really never used the suit.
Yeah it's hard to make infiltrators combat effective with cloaking. Hence why I proposed another way to do it and still retain their abilities. As other cloakers have said cloaking is about cloaking. Which I completely agree with and love doing. I just hate to see cloakers lose their versatility.
The only other thing I've seen remotely close to helping is the idea someone put up regarding alternative building entrances for cloakers.
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Old 2011-08-12, 03:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #53
Talek Krell
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Originally Posted by Huma View Post
As I explained above cloakers are losing ALOT of functionality in PS2 based off what we know of the role system.
The only thing we know about the role system is that there's a role system.

Originally Posted by Huma View Post
As far as we know no other role will have the ability to hack.
You're blindly assuming this too now? This is.....what?...I don't even...
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Old 2011-08-13, 03:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #54
Lonehunter
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Originally Posted by Huma
cloakers are losing ALOT of functionality in PS2 based off what we know of the role system.
Originally Posted by Huma
What their left with is flipping buildings.
Originally Posted by Huma
the cloakers ineffectiveness in large scale building fights
Originally Posted by Huma
even their hacking ability will be highly limited.
WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION?!?!?!? Are you Higby or something? Because there has been nothing released to back up what you say.

Originally Posted by Huma
I'm just making a suggestion based off the available information.
NO YOU'RE NOT!
All you're doing is thinking of problems in Planetside one and assuming they'll be in Planetside 2. Plus you're using the lack of certain information to guarantee other information, and neither has been varified or even mentioned.
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Originally Posted by Higby View Post
And if you back in 2003 decided you wanted to play RTS games, between then and now you'd have dozens of RTS games you could have played. If you decided to play MMOFPS' between then and now, there were none
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Old 2011-08-14, 01:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #55
Kouza
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Originally Posted by Lonehunter187 View Post
WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION?!?!?!? Are you Higby or something? Because there has been nothing released to back up what you say.



NO YOU'RE NOT!
All you're doing is thinking of problems in Planetside one and assuming they'll be in Planetside 2. Plus you're using the lack of certain information to guarantee other information, and neither has been varified or even mentioned.
I don`t see any ideas posted by you, at least Huma is taking the time to show some fucking initiative. Don`t tell me we cant talk about it without knowing more information because, basically you should GTFO if you don`t want to talk planetside 2 ideas in a planetside 2 discussion thread.

That being said. A sensor shield variant should be on the cloaker tree. FO SHO . One that drains stamina fast starting out, and then one that has a much slower drain further at the end.
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Old 2011-08-14, 01:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #56
Lonehunter
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Coming up with ideas is good and I encourage it, I've even told Huma to keep up the creativity.

But there's a big difference between a concept, and using the previous game to make unconfirmed assumptions about the sequel. I want this game to succeed and people are all ready tattooing PS1's problems onto it, then making ideas how to fix that. How do you know it needs fixing? How do you know it will be broken in the first place? Isn't it bad to take the problems of one game, assume they'll be in another, and start thinking of fixes?

I apologize for being so negative and I'll stay out of this discussion now, but this kind of thinking just doesn't seem productive.
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Originally Posted by Higby View Post
And if you back in 2003 decided you wanted to play RTS games, between then and now you'd have dozens of RTS games you could have played. If you decided to play MMOFPS' between then and now, there were none

Last edited by Lonehunter; 2011-08-14 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 2011-08-14, 03:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #57
Huma
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Not going to sit here and argue:

1: Considering what their going for in the roles each role will be the only one with acces to their own abilities. Until they come out with the actual trees I'm going with that assumption.

2: The "signature" ability for cloakers is hacking. With the removal of the ability to hack vehicles that leaves just bases.

3: The scale of the fights are going to be larger and the lethality is going up. Considering current base design that they have already said their keeping cloakers aren't going to be to do anything in these fights. Their going to be relegated to smaller fringe fights.

4: MW2 & Black Ops have light weight classes and invisibility to enemy radar. These classes are extremely effective in that you don't know their there until they smash you and that fade back before you can respond.

5: All of you going off about this isn't cloaker are the ones stuck on planetside 1 thinking. Quit complaining about an idea and either constructively criticize or stfu. Your not helping by bashing.
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Old 2011-08-15, 07:04 AM   [Ignore Me] #58
Huma
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


To clarify I re-read the features in regards to abilities and bases. You'll be able to change between classes but what you specialize in stays the same. So technically you will be able to heal other people outside of the medic role but it won't be as effective. So there is still a chance for cloakers to be versatile we'll just have to dump extra hours in medic, and engie to be able to use some of the abilities as a cloaker.
They also mentioned something about interior design being larger. So with any luck they'll be making bases a little more accessible for cloakers.
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Old 2011-08-15, 07:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #59
Senyu
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


Wall of text hurts my eyes.


From light skimming It seems people are really wondering what the Cloakers role is even going to be?I mean if I understand correctly you won't be as good as a medic if you spec cloak. And perhaps even hacking. So really what role does the Cloaker provide?


Figure that out and then increase the options of what you can do in that role as a cloaker. Don't mix him up with other classes. Give him unique role specific things and a large versatile pool of options to perform unqiue variations of that role.
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Old 2011-08-15, 11:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #60
Logit
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Re: Heavy Cloaker Revamped


I feel as if the word Heavy, and the word cloaker. Don't even belong in the same Thread.

Unless it was something like "I saw a cloaker take a heavy dump the other day."

Cloakers should be weaklings, it's the nature of the style of play. YOU'RE INVISIBLE
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