The "Umph" of Combat

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-04, 09:35 PM

Watch the trailer

Notice anything missing? Notice how something just feels off? Something that should just happen in a shooter game that is so integral these days that you might not even notice that is gone. Something missing that leaves you with this weird taste like milk you don't know is spoiled or not yet?

Here watch these. (not all the way, just for 30 seconds or so, skip around a bit, wadsworth constant, music etc.)

Still don't see it?

Despite all the gunfire and shooting happening in the first trailer, no one is getting shot. No one is shooting anyone, not even getting shot themselves. They are just shooting. Even in the scene with the Magrider zoomed in the shot goes above. Makes sense that they avoid showing it when you look at Planetside.

Let's face it, Planetside combat felt stale really. And it's not really hard to say why. Everything about it is as ancient as Doom. Killing someone just plays a death animation. This obnoxious cone of fire thing appears on the screen when you get a hit and is the only thing letting you know that you connected. Compare it to the original halo which released 2 years before it.

Halo, when you get a hit the enemy is knocked back, the shields flicker in the direction of ricochet, and liberal amounts of blood let you know that you are doing damage.You knew you got a hit even without the u.i telling you. Combat in Halo was satisfying and felt solid. You felt good when you hit the enemy.

Counter strike and Tribes have other elements that were satisfying as well. Things that let you know that you are an advanced player when you do them often, such as headshots and blueplates. Things that make you go

I'm interested in how Planetside 2 will make itself into a modern shooter by making it feel solid. If I melee someone will it stagger them? Will they be knocked in the direction of the blow? if I shoot them with a shotgun will they be staggered by it? What visual cues excluding the user interface will tell me the tactical information of an opponent?

I realize the game is in it's infancy, but the feedback of doing damage and taking it is the most integral part of a shooter there is. I'd really like to emphasize that if you have good mechanics for both, you will have an enjoyable game even including balance issues and such, because these mechanics determine how FUN a shooter is. It's infancy is where these need to nurtured and polished.

Vash02 · 2012-01-04, 09:43 PM

Well in the new gameplay footage it showed a mossie spiralling out of control in flames, better than the exploding into nothing of PS1.

Death2All · 2012-01-04, 09:49 PM

There was no feedback when you shot someone in PS?

Their body would jerk and they'd yell out in pain. If you killed somebody they would scream out as they die and then fall over on the ground.

Sure, PS combat is definitely clunky, slow and awkward by today's standards but I still found it to be one of the most enjoyable ones.

There wasn't as much of and emphasis on "HOLY SHIT YOU JUST GOT A HEADSHOT YOU'RE A BADASS!" in PS. It was more focused on the size and overall scale of the game. In fact, I really hope they keep that out of the game. They confirmed that something similar to killstreaks will be in the game, hopefully it's nothing too obnoxious.

SERGEANT MASTER SERGEANT SERGEANT SHOOTER PERSON OF THE FIRST SERGEANT

FoxBait · 2012-01-04, 10:02 PM

If you watch the trailer just released for The9's site, you can see shield flare, infantry death animations, and vehicle death animations.

I feel like that exactly what you're talking about.

SKYeXile · 2012-01-04, 10:32 PM

Why are you posting a video of the original planetside?

we saw in todays video you get shields flashing when a player is hit, and anyway a hit indicator on screen is pretty standard in every modern shooter these days, it wouldn't feel right without it. you wont be knocking people back though, it wont be possible on an MMO engine. this isnot some arena shooter where everything fine and dandy on 30mis ping connected to their ISP's locally hosted servers, this is an MMO with centrally located servers, knock back wont be possible and i think you will find ragdoll is out of the question too.

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-04, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by FoxBait

If you watch the trailer just released for The9's site, you can see shield flare, infantry death animations, and vehicle death animations.

I feel like that exactly what you're talking about.

See that's just the thing, they are animations. Not only that but they seem to be hidden. The skeeter falls from behind a building. The soldier that dies falls from behind the rifle. But it's progress from the dramatic "fall on the side, wacky flailing inflatable tube man" animation from Planetside. Hopefully they can get get more animations in for more variety. I would prefer some rag doll though. They mentioned that PhysX would be used didn't they? On what is the question.

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-04, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Why are you posting a video of the original planetside?

For the posters here that don't sub currently but want to remember what it was like? Should I remove it?

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

we saw in todays video you get shields flashing when a player is hit, and anyway a hit indicator on screen is pretty standard in every modern shooter these days, it wouldn't feel right without it. you wont be knocking people back though, it wont be possible on an MMO engine. this isnot some arena shooter where everything fine and dandy on 30mis ping connected to their ISP's locally hosted servers, this is an MMO with centrally located servers, knock back wont be possible and i think you will find ragdoll is out of the question too.

I think anyone that played the original would know that the MMO model makes it limited. But that shouldn't be used as an excuse a decade later for clunky combat. I realize it must be market speech, but Higby promised to set the bar for MMOFPS's to come. Shouldn't they be able show it with good polished combat?

SKYeXile · 2012-01-04, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

See that's just the thing, they are animations. Not only that but they seem to be hidden. The skeeter falls from behind a building. The soldier that dies falls from behind the rifle. But it's progress from the dramatic "fall on the side, wacky flailing inflatable tube man" animation from Planetside. Hopefully they can get get more animations in for more variety. I would prefer some rag doll though. They mentioned that PhysX would be used didn't they? On what is the question.

Vehicle and aircraft physics.

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-04, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Vehicle and aircraft physics.

Why can vehicle and aircraft physics be processed by onboard PhysX and ragdoll can't?

SKYeXile · 2012-01-04, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

For the posters here that don't sub currently but want to remember what it was like? Should I remove it?

I think anyone that played the original would know that the MMO model makes it limited. But that shouldn't be used as an excuse a decade later for clunky combat. I realize it must be market speech, but Higby promised to set the bar for MMOFPS's to come. Shouldn't they be able show it with good polished combat?

no it shouldn't be used as an excuse for clunky combat, it should be the reason there is no clunky combat. think about it, if you're getting packets at a delay from all these sources of fire that you have been knocked back...how clunky will it be? the answer is very. When the server has to authorise and give movement directions combat becomes delayed, it does not feel right, it feels clunky, by the physics been clientside it isnt clunky. This however means no knock back, and possibly due to having medics there would be no ragdoll physics on corpses, though BF3 has overcome this....somewhat...it is kinda annoying trying to res somebody that has slid under a box on your screen though...

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-04, 10:51 PM

Maybe knockback was too strong. When I mean stagger I mean something like a screen shake or something. Something to know I've been hit other than my health bar dropping and an obnoxious red bar appearing in the middle of my screen.

SKYeXile · 2012-01-04, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Maybe knockback was too strong. When I mean stagger I mean something like a screen shake or something. Something to know I've been hit other than my health bar dropping and an obnoxious red bar appearing in the middle of my screen.

Perhaps more like this?

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-04, 11:06 PM

The only thing distinguishing that video from the original Planetside is the setting and how often the messages appear on the screen

Baneblade · 2012-01-05, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

There was no feedback when you shot someone in PS?

Don't forget the /tell hate

ArmedZealot · 2012-01-05, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

There was no feedback when you shot someone in PS?

Their body would jerk and they'd yell out in pain. If you killed somebody they would scream out as they die and then fall over on the ground.

I didn't say that there was no feedback just said it was ancient as Doom, which it is. Get hit, play wounded animation, play predefined scream #4, get hit again, play predefined scream #4, play swooning death animation. Repeat that for the next 30 kills or ad nauseum.

Is that bad for one of the first and most popular games of it's kind? No. Is it bad for it's prodigal son?