Smoke post Maurader Buff...a sign of things to come for all vehicles? - Page 6

Madcow · 2004-02-04, 12:18 PM

Yeah, based on your poll results things are clear to all but the willfully ignorant.

History revision. That's hilarious. You're grasping at straws, man. It's a game, and you're a bright enough guy to know that the Deci belongs in AV regardless of how hard the pill is for you to swallow because it impacts you directly. I can't help but think back and laugh, there I was complaining about the Interlink Benefits being added and the way that it impacted cloakers dramatically, that they'd add something late in the game that could screw a whole class of characters, and there was you saying to adapt. Take your own advice. Adapt. It makes sense and you know it, you're not convincing anybody with your poor arguments.

Onizuka-GTO · 2004-02-04, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Majik

My favorite use for the lancer has always been the quick removal of spitfires. No weapon takes them out faster at distance. Combine that with a thumper full of EMP grenades and you can negate CE in a few seconds. I still see benefit to spending all 6 cert points to have both weapons.

yes yes, I find it great for taking out spitfires and mines.
In fact after I take a tower i put on my Anti-deployable favourite combo to clear the surroundings which is basicially a few EMP grenades, a lancer and ammo. And if a vehicles comes round, at lease I can throw a few lancer bolts to say hello before I die.

Jagd · 2004-02-04, 12:34 PM

Nobody has explained to me how this fixes the Striker's lock on, or the Lancer's ineffectiveness. I'm sure I will adapt, which actually means that I will have to give up the thumper and the rocklet so I can keep my decimator. And oh joy, I can get a useless weapon that I can't actually carry around in my Agile armor without gimping myself vs infantry. Maybe it's not the end of the world, but for something that could so easily be tweaked to not mess with a single player's setup, it seems absurd that they wouldn't even consider it.

And yes I remember the fun we had with ILF, but you should also recall that I am a longtime SOE-basher basher, and now I am starting to see things differently.

Firefly · 2004-02-04, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jagd

If it was always intended to be that way, then why wasn't it always that way? I'll bet you're one of the smacktards who believes it is ok to revise history because it is easier than admitting you lied or were wrong in the first place.

I can't answer why, you'll have to get SmokeJumper or Sporkfire to explain that one- I know Sporky visits this forum, perhaps he'll say hello and grace you with an answer.

As for history revision- I fail to see where this applies to anything I said or you said. The Decimator is a tube-launched dumbfire anti-armor weapon, used against heavily-armored MAXes and armored vehicles. Whereas Special Assault seems to be non-rifle type grenade and explosive weapons designed to destroy soft ground targets. IE- Thumper, a grenade/explosive used to take out deployables and infantry and Rocklet, an explosive weapon used to take out deployables and infantry. Now, I have rarely seen a Decimator used on a troop, and any fucking moron standing still to get hit with one deserves it, and I rarely see someone waste a Decimator on deployables. Instead, I see the Decimator used to take out vehicles and MAXes. Which is exactly what the Phoenix and Striker are used for.

Funny how logic works, eh chap?

Dharkbayne · 2004-02-04, 12:47 PM

Hmm, he's in the IRC channel right now, I'll ask him and answer you guys in just a few minutes

Queensidecastle · 2004-02-04, 01:17 PM

A) Has been addressed. Deci is going to be AV, you like Deci, therefore you like AV.
B) Just stop with the ridiculous exaggerations, please. SA is 3 certs, you'll still get 2 (3 with Radiator) useful weapons with that. How many certs is the Bolt Driver? Oh, that's right. It's 3. Odd that you haven't been campaigning about that being unfair, and the Bolt Driver is useful in far less situations than the Rocklet and Thumper are useful. How about you just be glad about how long you had it entirely too good instead of complaining that it's now far more even?
C) I'm pretty confident they can adjust. The playerbase for the most part received free certs when they started grouping vehicles and MAXs. This makes sense, and people are whining because they like the Deci and don't want to have to change the way they play. BDMJ seems to be the only person I've seen who pretty much just admits that it makes sense but he doesn't like it because it will negatively impact him personally.

A) Wrong. Currently with SA you get 3 usefull weapons. AV sucks and has no usefull weapons (not including Phoenix) so when Deci gets moved to AV I am not paying 3 certs for 3 usefull weapons, I am paying 3 certs for 1 usefull weapon. How can you not understand this?

B)Still get? Why do I have to "still get" anything? It shouldnt be getting nerfed in the first place. Sure this is a buff to AV users, but it is a massive nerf to SA users. WTF couldnt they just buff AV because it is still going to need it even after the Decimator moves instead of nerfing SA?

C)Your going to try and gloss over the fact that people are going to be out 3 cert points if they want to continue to use the same weapons and just dismiss it by saying to adapt? How asinine. Of course we are going to adapt, you either adapt or just quit playing, but it severely severs any good will you might have with the company. As was already pointed out, cert changes like this should have been made during the balance pass, not nearly a fucking year after release. If they wanted to make a case for some horribly overbalancing issue with the Decimator that warranted such a move after nearly a year I would like to hear it, otherwise I have heard nothing that justifies screwing SA troopers out of 3 certs if they want to continue enjoyment of the game.

"Makes sense" isnt fucking good enough to make this kind of change nearly a year after release. I want to hear the balance arguments as to why this is necessary

Queensidecastle · 2004-02-04, 01:38 PM

I want to follow that up by saying what the Devs should have done first is get AV where it needs to be before cannabalizing another cert. Not after. Before. Then the folks like myself who will have to spend 6 points instead of 3 to continue using the same weapons could see some value in the new arrangement. Right now there is no value in the new arrangement.

If any devs are reading this:
Boost AV (ammo boxes, tweak damage) and Boost SA (ammo boxes) BEFORE you move the Decimator (if we have no other choice) if you want to do it right

Madcow · 2004-02-04, 02:16 PM

First of all, I'm all for addressing the current AV weapons and making them useful. I've never argued that. Secondly, this poor me crap about your precious SA getting some long overdue attention is just pathetic. The game hasn't been out 'nearly a year' at all, MMO games take a lot of tweaking for the first 2 years. We all know this. Many players have gotten to used to having a cert that was just too damned good for the price. The main reason it was too good for the price is that it included an AV weapon, even though it wasn't an AV cert. To add insult to injury, it also happened to be the best AV weapon in the game. The Deci always should have been a common pool AV weapon to give people certed in AV the choice of empire specific (which hopefully get some love) or common pool Deci. Any player in this game not thinking only of themselves sees this for what it is. The right thing to do.

Queensidecastle · 2004-02-04, 02:30 PM

Your certainly entitled to your opinion and I agree with you on most things, but we arent going to agree at all on this one

Visor · 2004-02-04, 03:49 PM

"Makes sense" isnt fucking good enough to make this kind of change nearly a year after release. I want to hear the balance arguments as to why this is necessary

But the deci cahnge does make sense and they are working on empire AV as soon as the lock on bugs get fixed the TR will own with the striker the VS will own with the starfire while the NC will own with the pidgeon, i mean sparrow.

It balances out quite well on average but indevidually something will always be worse thats the way it was meant to be different.

Visor · 2004-02-04, 03:50 PM

Did anyone read the topic this has nothing to do with the vehicals.

Madcow · 2004-02-04, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Visor

But the deci cahnge does make sense and they are working on empire AV as soon as the lock on bugs get fixed the TR will own with the striker the VS will own with the starfire while the NC will own with the pidgeon, i mean sparrow.

It balances out quite well on average but indevidually something will always be worse thats the way it was meant to be different.

The lock on bug impacts the Striker and Sparrow only, the Starfire lock is gold.

Onizuka-GTO · 2004-02-04, 04:34 PM

Oh and if you people look atthe other thread lots of changes have been said by smokejumper, but strangely he hasn't mention anything about fixing the Striker lock-on bug but he mention the obvious more ammo per box, decimator move, ammo clip size for weapons, Jackhammer nerf, and blahblahblahbikinipokadottedswimsuitpervertsblahbl ah...

go check it out!...or you already have...?
I think this thread going to be obselete...

Onizuka-GTO · 2004-02-05, 07:05 AM

Anyway....

Firefly · 2004-02-05, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by PorkFryer

also in iraq u shot more english that iraqqys and u were bein commanded by r sas :P

Our troops weren't commanded by your SAS, poor ignorant buffoon.

But let's assume for a second that you're right, that your puny five-year-old mind can grasp military doctrine and the chain of command and concepts such as OPCON.

So what does that say about your leadership?