Say No to quick scoping.

[Mezorin]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

You've clearly never shot a shotgun in your life. This is 10 yards with a full choke. Buck shot will have a pattern of 12-24 inches diameter at 25 yards, depending on round and choke. Fin stabilized flechettes would be even better.

I have, actually, and its much easier to hit close range skeet with a 12 gauge buck shell than it is to hit with a .308 cartridge. Real life shotguns are always way more accurate than the video game counter part, and its a bit of a trope that buck shot tends to suck beyond 10 meters in most games. Its in the similar vein that a single sniper lung shot doesn't instantly kill you, or that a leg shot doesn't blow your leg off instanty: balance tends to trump realism in most games.

EDIT: think about it, do you really want a New Conglomerate jackhammer (which fires those same shotgun shells) to hit a 1 inch group at 10 meters every shot? I can already imagine the misery we'd get from the VS and TR if that were the case.

[Karrade]

Originally Posted by Mezorin

Well, then you got some insanely good reflexes and aim and can nail some very tough shots, bravo. No sarcasm, you'd probably kick a lot of ass as aggressive recon in Battlefield 3. But you missed the smiley a few times didn't you? That slow down time to get the precision is what would have gotten you killed in a close in gun fight. The close quarter clinch sniper shot is a crap shoot at best, especially when you're fighting with a x8 scope against a moving target. I will agree that a shoty is horrid for anything beyond close quarter battle though, but in reality you could apply this to an SMG or an assault rifle (just pretend you can click and drag across your big target to see what I mean) as well as a sniper rifle.

Now I won't question your aim, but there's a reason that high level competitive play in COD, Battlefield 3, CS 1.6, and other FPSes generally use assault rifles for their team, with maybe one good distance sniper. The shots, killing power, and reliability still apply even at the highest levels of human ability start to favor the assault rifles or carbines for any close quarter fighting. So in short, at anything up to about 50 meters (give or take, depending on game), anything you could do with a sniper rifle you could do better with a carbine or assault rifle even with one shot kill mechanics. This, of course assumes that all weapons are balanced against each other for TTK and useage. I won't argue against a 13 shot gauss kill but a one shot bolt driver being unbalanced because it is, but if it was a 3 or 4 shot gauss kill (or 2 shot head) my money would be on the gauss guy.

Well provided AR's or Carbines are not one shot kills but sniper rifles still are: (hopefully nothing, even NC (like the old shotty...) won't be 1SK, even Snipers but I digress)

My reflexes are still good, not as amazing as it was in my 20's but good now. Plenty of younger guys coming in will have good reflexes, comparative to what I have still, many will be better .

As an honest shooting speed - I moved very fast, I did miss the smiley a couple of times out of many. So please -do- question my aim, it isn't bad by any means, but at this close, again it isn't so much about aim, as reflexes. If I can kill an enemy 1 shot 80-90% of the time I'll take that, especially if I get a second shot most of the time after that.

Its not reflexes + aim, as a usual distance sniper would face, its just reflexes plus a bit of aim. Picture being a game designer looking for balance, I don't understand why you'd put an assault rifle vs a shotgun at close quarters? At medium range Yes!!! We are talking close in though, or alternatively long range. Medium range, heck a sniper rifle or shotgun is probably toast most of the time.

[Mezorin]

Fair enough, shotguns and SMGs should have the advantage at close range when compared with an assault rifle as a matter of good game design, I'll give you that. EDIT: ARs and carbines are good in most games because they cover a large variety of sight lines and situations well, and can make fast kills even out to medium or long range where a shotgun or sniper rifle might struggle. You will see a lot of assault rifles, LMGs and carbines out there in PS2 because (knock on wood) there will be a huge variety of sight lines and engagement distances which tend to favor the more jack of all trade guns as opposed to the old days of heavy assault rockem sockem jack hammer robot base sieges all the time.

Oh, and one last thing I should mention is that in close range, shotguns and full automatic weapons have the benefit of being able to hip fire to make their kills while a sniper rifle must zoom in to be accurate. So in context of the exercise, not only does the reply button have a wider margin of error, you also have another quarter second or more (based upon a sane zoom in time here) in which to get the shot off on the large target and an easier time tracking the target while moving than if the shot was made than even with a reflex sight on a sniper rifle. You can still get some relatively quick drag shot kills with a reflex sight on a sniper rifle in ranges less than 50 meters, or even point blank, but those same kills could be made far more easily with a shotgun or an automatic weapon with a good cone of fire.

Now if you are using a battle rifle style weapon with an infiltrator that can engage everything from 0 to 150 meters decently with a low powered scope and doing great because you are an amazing shot and smart about your peeks, I say you've found a niche and you shouldn't be any more ashamed of punking a shotgun user with a surprise point blank semi auto kill than SkyExile would be bombing a skyguard with a reaver. But just because a good reaver might be able to get the drop on a bad skyguard does not mean suddenly skyguards are always going to lose against reavers, and even with a half decent reflex scope the same is true for sniper rifles verses shotties (or automatic weapons) in close quarter combat.

[Peacemaker]

Bringing the scope up fast is fine. Moving and being able to shoot or stop and shoot fast is not fine.

[Malstrum]

I certainly hope there wont be any quick-scoping. The infiltrator is going to be a considerable opponent with what the class has to offer now, invisibility, sniper rifles, explosives, CQB weapons ect, giving them the chance to quick-scope will just promote lone wolf play to show their "skills".

Personally I love playing as a sniper, there's nothing more satisfying then taking bullet drop, time and distance into consideration, then to pull off a successful headshot is rewarding in it's self, but running from point A to B with a sniper that might as well weigh as much as a book and getting cheap kills is not enjoyable at all, especially in games like Planetside.

[Lonehunter]

Quickscoping used to be a glitch or exploit, and it really sucks that one of the most popular FPSs (CoD) deliberately put it in the game.

It better not make it's way into PS2. I keep a very clear head and don't say things like this often but quickscoping would ruin the game for me. It's such a busted mechanic I won't be able to fathom why they put it in our beloved game, and would certainly spend more time with other shooters if it happened.

[somers]

TO ALL QUICKSCOPERS- How about instead of being a 12 year old who thinks he is an MLG 1337 quickscoper and actually use your pistol for close range? -A concerned gamer

Not to sound like a dick, but quickscoping requires no talent when there is aim assist, and since this is a pc game there should be no aim assist since it was intended to make console shooters easier to handle with the first being Halo brought to Xbox

[Creezey]

I concur. I always felt quick scoping was a little gamey in the titles that I played that it was part of. I feel sniping is and should be a very deliberate process and a rewarding kill AT DISTANCE.

Can already see the scenario play out in which someone gets the drop with an AR and a scope to kill shot ends the engagement in under a second (or imagine an unrealistic amount of time). Happens too much in other shooters.