Spork watch: reply on surgile - Page 3

Rayder · 2004-01-10, 07:36 PM

Damn right they better go cure AIDs.

flypengy · 2004-01-11, 02:58 AM

This topic has to have generated the most ideas, flames, and critiscisms in this game.

As an NC I will explain why finding alternate solutions to warping besides fixing the crappy prediction code will create such an utterance of unhappiness and empire hopping from NC that lasher 2.0 will seem miniscule.

The first thing that must be understood about the JH is that it relies on extremely close ranges to dominate. This is why 1v1 in a tower type situation the JH will conquer. However, most combat does not involve such extreme close ranges. That is why surge is the godsend of NC HA users. Surge allows a JH user to close into the optimum range so that the JH can acheive it's maximum effectivness.

Option #1: "A weapon can not be equipped while using surge" - How am I suppose to close the gap to make my weapon effective now? A TR or VS HA user simply has to crouch at the end of a hall or strafe left to right while an NC slowly trudges with his weapon firing to try to kill him. 1v1 the JH will lose. Well, you imagine you can surge without a weapon equipped at all and destroy them once you have closed the gap... Still, the damage that will be taken while your opponent is taking none makes the distance you've gained obsolete. You're forced to perhaps get a lucky triple burst in (which people also cry to have nerfed), but most likely you might get one shot off or simply none at all.

Second option: "Must have rexo to be able to use HA" - While a better solution than the first this still has a distinct flaw... Rexo is slow as shit. The ground that is neccesary to gain on your opponent is not feasible with the speeds allowed in rexo. The even bigger problem with this is that you can still warp in rexo! One bunny hop and you will still move abnormally across the screen.

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Warping is not induced by surge, surge just makes the warping amplified. I never hear people complain about warping cloakers or warping standards (you can warp just as easily straight out of the spawn tubes). But the above fixes are not acceptable. None of you can deny that the JH requires you to get near your opponent while if given the same situation with lasher or MCG user you're better to keep your distance (the lasher doesn't even lash inside 5m!!!).

The different HA's do their jobs. An entrenched VS force is far more formiddable than entrenched NC (remember the uber pounders?). While the NC are a far more aggressive weapon that is suited for close combat and assaulting. The TR take the middle road.

VS = defensive
NC = offensive
TR = balance of the two

Hamma: The spork's comment was not about warping, but about agile/HA. Reread.

Queensidecastle · 2004-01-11, 09:34 AM

The answer for option #1 is really really simple: Get Rexo and use the Gauss. Getting rid of surgiles will help get the game back to more of what it is supposed to be. You are not entitled to be able to use HA under all conditions. The game just isnt setup that way and the Surgile concept totaly exploits that fact. I am personally against requiring a weapon to be holstered to use surge because that type of nerf just isnt necessary. Quickly draining the Stamina for Surging with HA is the answer. That way you still can do it, but your going to have to plan it a lot more and actually think about what you are doing as opposed to all the idiots that eject over towers and surgile for a solid minute, oneshotting everyone with Jackhammer on secondary. This will force the people that love up front ownage with HA into the Rexo suit (movement rate is quite well balanced) because trying to do what they are doing now with free armor, will just result in getting owned

Rayder · 2004-01-11, 09:48 AM

If I'm not mistaken, all armors move the same speed with surge on, it's just that they drain stamina differently, so it seems like the lighter ones move faster but all they're doing is moving farther.

Firefly · 2004-01-11, 09:50 AM

That may be- Stamina drain should be increased dramatically in agile or reinforced armor, and even MORESO if you've got a weapon in your hand.

Kikinchikin · 2004-01-11, 09:50 AM

If you think it's just the NC who can do surgile, then you're very very wrong. I've owned many a people using surgile and MCG. In fact I went toe to toe with 2 very skilled players and beat them both. I don't like the jackhammer. I rate it as the last of the HA weapons. Give me my MCG any day, or if not a lasher or a maelstrom will do. The jackhammer is not my style man.

And I get warping sure. It frustrates me, but not enough that I want surge removed from the game or nerfed. It's not cheating, because it doesn't involve altering the game's content. (see agreement). When I kill 4 guys in a tower surging around with my MCG, I'm simply getting the better of them, while running faster (and having my stamina drain quickly). It IS a "clever use of in game methods," because the devs gave us surge, they gave us agile and they gave us heavy assault. Sooner or later they had to realize that someone would try this combo.

flypengy · 2004-01-11, 04:16 PM

I agree that you can do surge agile with any weapon, but surge agile with JH is better than surging with MCG and surging agile with lasher is hardly intelligent.

shadow58 · 2004-01-11, 04:33 PM

Rayder try surging in reinforced armour, nowhere near as fast as agile and infil i'm sure. Drains stamina quicker as well.

Kikinchikin · 2004-01-11, 04:56 PM

Pengy what you say is opinion. And although more people probably agree with you than me, I would rather have my MCG than a JH.

Firefly · 2004-01-11, 05:10 PM

I'd rather kill a Jackspammer and use his Jackspammer to kill more of his buddies. Sounds more fitting that way, to die by your own empire's weapons.

Queensidecastle · 2004-01-11, 05:24 PM

A surging Infil can easily overtake a surging agile and a surging agile can easily overtake a surging rexo

Ait'al · 2004-01-11, 05:25 PM

Unless you throw a plasma grenade at them! 8\

JFPhoenix · 2004-01-11, 06:05 PM

I only use surge as a cloaker to catch up with guys to knife them in the back, I've heard of the surgile strategy but for some reason never tried to use it before. I guess the best way to deal with it is to make the stamina drain more when you have a HA equipped that way people can still have agile with HA.

Gigabein · 2004-01-11, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Lilbird2431

It IS a "clever use of in game methods," because the devs gave us surge, they gave us agile and they gave us heavy assault. Sooner or later they had to realize that someone would try this combo.

The devs are not all-knowing and perfect. They did not cover every angle. This is a weak arguement. By your logic the game should have been balanced the day it was released.

infinite loop · 2004-01-12, 11:06 AM

I still have not seen a valid argument against surgile that doesn't mention warping. Warping is a very annoying problem, and when I get killed by someone who just warped around my screen I get pissed too. But it doesn't only happen with surge, it's a problem all on it's own. The devs have admitted multiple times that warping is a coding issue, and not caused by cshd or connection. If they can fix warping, then there is no need to nerf surge. If they can't, then they may have to take steps to reduce warping.

Veteran - why do you assume that surgile will be nerfed? I think it's pretty obvious that a large percentage of players use this, and would be equally upset by it being nerfed. Nerfs always cause people to leave the game, and this kind of nerf would be the most impactful yet. They won't do it for that reason. I can see them tweaking things, but a major nerf to surgile won't work.

pengy - I've used surgile lasher to great effect. You have to do alot more strafing than with a JH, but it still works great.