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Old 2012-06-28, 06:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
Natir
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Re: What a travisty


The opinion:
http://media.npr.org/documents/2012/...are-062812.pdf

The most straightforward reading of the individual mandate is that it commands individuals to purchase insurance. But, for the reasons explained, the Commerce Clause does not give Congress that power. It is therefore necessary to turn to the Government’s alternative argument: that the mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power to “lay and collect Taxes.
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Part III–C, concluding that the individual mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s power under the Taxing Clause.
The Affordable Care Act expands the scope of the Medicaid program andincreases the number of individuals the States must cover. For example, the Act requires state programs to provide Medicaid coverage by 2014 to adults with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level, whereas many States now cover adults with children onlyif their income is considerably lower, and do not cover childless adults at all. The Act increases federal funding to cover the States’ costs in expanding Medicaid coverage. But if a State does not comply with the Act’s new coverage requirements, it may lose not only the federal funding for those requirements, but all of its federal Medicaid funds.
Because THE CHIEF JUSTICE finds the withholding—not the granting—of federal funds incompatible with the Spending Clause, Congress’ extension of Medicaid remains available to any State that affirms its willingness to participate.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-06-28, 07:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
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Re: What a travisty


Meh.
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Old 2012-06-28, 07:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
Natir
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
If the law was honestly revealed to the country as a tax at the time of its passing, it would have never been passed. The President is a fraud and a liar.
The president never said it was a tax, thats one of what the supreme court changed. I don't know why the Obama admin. just didn't make it a tax at the start... Republicans will have a good argument to stand on now, taxes. The medicaid part was nice, I think it was kind of dumb if states didn't want to participate they would get their funding cut...
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-06-28, 08:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
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Re: What a travisty


Meh.
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Old 2012-06-28, 09:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by ziegler View Post
What the SCOTUS did today was tell the Congress is that you can impose anything on the people you want, so long as you call it a tax. They also enshrined the power to tax non-activity.
If you dont buy florida oranges, pay a tax, if you dont buy a Chevy Volt, pay a tax. If you dont have a M1 carbine and 100 rounds stored correctly on your premises....pay a tax......


The precedence set today is bad...very bad and we, The People, will end up being abused with it by both sides of the aisle.

This precedent was not set to today. They already tax non activity. What do you think all those credits, rebates, deductions, writeoffs, etc, are?

I do not have kids. The government taxes me more.

I do not own a house. The government taxes me more.

I am not in school. The government taxes me more.

etc, etc, etc

This is in no way a new power the congress has.

Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
The court didn't change it to being a tax - that's what the attorney arguing it used as justification. They passed it saying it wasn't a tax increase, then turned around and argued to the court that it was.

The reason they didn't make it a tax from the start is that it would never have passed as a tax, and Obama had made many promises that he wouldn't raise taxes on the middle class. But like most of the rest of what Obama says, it's just a bunch of bullshit. Can't wait to see the debates, wonder how many times Romney will use the words "fraud", "misled", "deceived" and "lied" when referring to Obama.

Sadly no one will use the word 'idiot' for people who didn't know exactly what he was doing the entire time. Its been 100% obvious that it functions exactly like a minor tax increase + new rebate from the beginning.

I've made the argument here on this forum that this is the reason it would be held to be constitutional.

Welcome to politics. Everyone lies. Its exactly like the 'death panel' bullshit republicans spouted off to try to demonize health care reform.
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Old 2012-06-28, 10:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
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Re: What a travisty


I have mixed feelings on this subject(as I do on most subjects if you haven't noticed).

I hate the Rhetoric on both sides.

Dems saying Reps want everyone to die.

Reps saying Dems want the USA to turn into USSR Socialismpalooza.

I really, really like the pre-exisiting condition clause...(as it affects me. If I ever lose my health insurance I will be royally fucked without that clause.)

And I think everyone SHOULD get insurance...or, perhaps, maybe we should stop them from using the ER as their PC Doc?

While I can understand the viewpoint that the "car insurance" analogy doesn't quite work....people who require health care, and choose not to buy health insurance, are affecting us all in a negative way. Their irresponsibly is really fucking us up.

I also understand the issue of state rights.

I am curious to see what Romney's solution is.

The coming debates are going to be mighty annoying. I'm sure the word fraud(and others), as Malorn says, along with flipflopper will be all over the airwaves.

And I'm willing to bet a few bucks that if Romney gets in office...not much will change.
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Old 2012-06-28, 11:31 PM   [Ignore Me] #37
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Re: What a travisty


The Nov election has changed now. It's Vote for Obama and have massive tax hikes with socialized healthcare. Or vote Romney and have it repealed and start over.
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Old 2012-06-29, 12:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #38
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
If the law was honestly revealed to the country as a tax at the time of its passing, it would have never been passed. The President is a fraud and a liar.
He's a fraud and a liar for not following through on many of his big campaign promises, one of which was to provide meaningful health care reform. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act does some good stuff, making it harder for insurance companies to deny people coverage and so on, but it still leaves you with the most inefficient health care system in the industrialized world. So he was a liar before and he's I guess more of a liar now, but ironically I guess the lies people who might have voted for Obama care about are ones Romney voters were happy with anyway (keeping Guantanamo open, staying in Afghanistan, etc.)

The funny thing is that the best outcome probably was for it to be nixed. With the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act hanging around, it'll be tough for future Presidents to get the US off the terrible free market health care system it's on and bring it over to a far superior single payer health care system like every nation with any sense has.

e: As for the impact this'll have on the election, the bizarre hyperbole of "OMG HUGE TAXES AND SOCIALISM!" is pretty silly. The Act existed before this ruling. If it got repealed the GOP machine would have spun it as the inept President trying to impose his Nazi Muslim Socialist Kenyan views on God-fearing Real American Patriots. Now that it's been supported, the GOP will spin it as the inept President actually imposing his Nazi Muslim Socialist Kenyan views on God-fearing Real American Patriots.

Last edited by Warborn; 2012-06-29 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 2012-06-29, 01:33 AM   [Ignore Me] #39
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by Vecha View Post
I am curious to see what Romney's solution is.
Romney's solution is whatever will get him more votes. The man has few strongly held convictions, and fewer still that he wouldn't change his mind on if it would get him a few more votes.


Once again, douche and a turd. :/
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Old 2012-06-29, 02:13 AM   [Ignore Me] #40
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
The court didn't change it to being a tax - that's what the attorney arguing it used as justification.
Odd, I've always heard of it at as a tax. This was brought up over at reddit actually with O'Reilly's comments.
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Old 2012-06-29, 07:29 AM   [Ignore Me] #41
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by Sirisian View Post
You didnt hear that from Obama and the democrats. They insisted it was NOT a tax. Go look up his interview with George Stephawhatever. He pracitically took George to task for even thinking it could be a tax. Going so far as to imply just because it fits the precise definition of a tax as set forth in a dictionary....it wasnt.

Also...bullshit on the tax breaks being the same as a tax for not doing something. That's spin and you know it.


This new found way of taxing will be abused by both sides.
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Old 2012-06-29, 08:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #42
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
He's a fraud and a liar for not following through on many of his big campaign promises, one of which was to provide meaningful health care reform. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act does some good stuff, making it harder for insurance companies to deny people coverage and so on, but it still leaves you with the most inefficient health care system in the industrialized world. So he was a liar before and he's I guess more of a liar now, but ironically I guess the lies people who might have voted for Obama care about are ones Romney voters were happy with anyway (keeping Guantanamo open, staying in Afghanistan, etc.)

The funny thing is that the best outcome probably was for it to be nixed. With the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act hanging around, it'll be tough for future Presidents to get the US off the terrible free market health care system it's on and bring it over to a far superior single payer health care system like every nation with any sense has.

e: As for the impact this'll have on the election, the bizarre hyperbole of "OMG HUGE TAXES AND SOCIALISM!" is pretty silly. The Act existed before this ruling. If it got repealed the GOP machine would have spun it as the inept President trying to impose his Nazi Muslim Socialist Kenyan views on God-fearing Real American Patriots. Now that it's been supported, the GOP will spin it as the inept President actually imposing his Nazi Muslim Socialist Kenyan views on God-fearing Real American Patriots.
Last time i checked the law will be fully implemented in 2014. Thats why you are not seeing anything.......................................... .................................................. .......................yet.

Any dumb ass that votes for Obama in Nov. Is voting for the downfall of America. There are other ways to reform healthcare, than this crap they call law.
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Old 2012-06-29, 08:38 AM   [Ignore Me] #43
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by aceshigh View Post
How could requiring someone to carry health insurance be considered constitutional? It blows my mind.

ETA: travesty too
Agreed.
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Old 2012-06-29, 08:56 AM   [Ignore Me] #44
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Re: What a travisty


Taxing somebody for not participating in a GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED program (which is what health insurance companies will become) is not the same as getting tax rebates/write-offs for certain activities i.e. business expenses, secured mortgage interest, etc...

...Oh wait, YES IT IS! Why? Because these things have ALSO become Government sanctioned programs! Hooray! Who do you get a mortgage from? A bank...


And Neuro, I know you think that Socialism is just the cats meow and that when a rapist burglarizes your home it's pure Capitalism, but I got news for you buddy...you're wrong.

What you describe, as the government mandating these things (and yes it WILL hurt middle class most), is NOT Capitalism; it is Fascism.
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Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
...I called Jo Jo's Psychic Alliance last night and she assured me that JFK's ghost killed Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman is being compelled by the Illuminati to take the fall. ... Don't you scientists be telling me lies, getting me all confused about "facts" and "magnets" and so on.
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Old 2012-06-29, 09:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #45
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Re: What a travisty


Originally Posted by LegioX View Post
Any dumb ass that votes for Obama in Nov. Is voting for the downfall of America. There are other ways to reform healthcare, than this crap they call law.
Hahahahaha, the downfall of America.

Not that we're spiraling into meaningless hyperbole or anything.
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