my lengthy diatribe on bunkers - Page 3

SumYungGui · 2003-07-16, 12:39 PM

why give tanks anything? half of my post was spent pointing out how useless and unused bunkers are. if they're suddenly made useful why give tanks anything? we already know infantry are more than capable of clearing a bunker, that's half the reason nobody uses them.

Tryndamere · 2003-07-16, 03:32 PM

One thing they need to do is raise the point at which gun fire travels outward from a crouching character.

Its really dumb that crouching up on base walls (to get accurate shots) will make most of your bullets hit the wall. Same thing goes for the random boxes inside bases.

FearTheAtlas · 2003-07-16, 03:47 PM

Bumped the OF post, Spork better see that.

ThundaHawkPS · 2003-07-16, 04:04 PM

I have an idea. How about we give bunkers a nice location change along with a HUGE 50MM Chaingun? Huh? Then bases could have big pill-box like structures to mow down da zerg :P

Slice · 2003-07-16, 04:07 PM

I personally like the idea of giving a bunker a tunnel directly to the base, and that being the only bunker entrance. The blast door controls in bunkers sounds cool too. But he's a bunker idea: Put a bunker (or on) the side of the tech plant ground veh term! Then, if you're trying to secure a base, the veh term is hacked, and a veh is on the way out, you load up ur Striker/Phoenix/Lancer/Max Clip and unload on the thing. Sure, may not be the most useful idea, but its a thought.

Lonehunter · 2003-07-16, 04:18 PM

I'm about to spam the official forums saying to read that post. But, after I think about it, it'll just make them mad and they might not read it. Great ideas though! I would like to see a couple bunkers (just 2) inside the bases as well. Or, have a bunker in a base wall that faces the inside and out of the base.

gonnagetyou · 2003-07-16, 04:32 PM

I've always felt that the bunkers were one of the least thought out positions in the game. Most of them are poorly positioned and in many cases it looks as if they were just randomely placed about. I've done some level building with other games and I honestly can't understand why you would just haphazardly do this.

The main bunkers near base gates should certainly only be accessible from somewhere within the base. I like the idea of connecting it to the lower floor of the base. Even a simple tunnel leading from the wall to the bunker would be preferable to the current set up with the open door at the back.

I'd like to see bunkers contain lockers. Any good fortification is going to have some sort of stockpile of ammunition and weapons. The locker system would be pefect for this. An actual equipment terminal would perhaps make it too powerful, IMO.

Bunkers should also be placed near important terrain features. Most bridges have something placed near their ends, but in most cases they are impractical to use and worthless. Here is another good reason to have lockers in them. They are typically far away from any terminal and having access to a locker would make it more worth while to stay there for a time to defend the location. Perhaps the bridge bunkers could also have a terminal that controls a barrier that covers that particular end of the bridge. This barrier would be wide enough to prevent vehicle traffic but still allow foot traffic, which means you would need to first take control of the bunker in order to bring down the barrier.

Perhaps base gates could contain a small gatehouse with a switch for some sort of similar barrier to protect the base entrances. Assault forces would need to first bring down this barrier by assaulting the gate house before they have free reign to run amok in the courtyard. Now we could introduce a new certification costing one point and called the "Grappeling Hook" or something more sci-fi sounding. With this cert you can purchase some sort of device that allows you to scale the wall of a base or tower thus bypassing the gates. This new cert is only available to non MAX units. This would help create a more siege like atmosphere with people defending the walls and attackers trying to scale them. Perhaps Combat Engineers get to erect some more permanent ladder or such that needs to be destroyed by the defenders.

Bases are far too open for an assaulting force to enter. Make bases a lot harder to get into and a lot easier to defend and I think people will start getting a lot more satisfaction out of taking a base than they do now.

gonnagetyou · 2003-07-16, 04:41 PM

I just thought of something that might be fun. In order to scale the walls of a base, Combat Enginners can deploy a small device with an energy field that when stepped on propels the infantryman over the wall. You basically run and jump on it and go airborne for a moment. It could easily be destroyed and the Combat Engineer would have to make sure he doesn't deploy it too close or too far away from the wall. Otherwise, Splat!

Nixon · 2003-07-16, 04:48 PM

Wow... like another person earlier, I've been a longtime reader of PSU for weeks since its one of a few PlanetSide-related sites that I have access to at work. I must commend your ideas in making bunkers more useful!

In response to weapons emplacements on said bunkers, I think it'd be interesting if Empire-specific weapons rose out of the roof of the bunker depending on who is in control. VS energy weapons, TR pounder and machine gun emplacements, and NC Enforcer-like rockets and gauss cannon emplacements. Unlike turrets, perhaps they can be permanently destroyed and have a time limit as to when they can be rebuilt... much like you can't just keep buying vehicles back to back.

And another nice addition to bunkers would be limited Inventory Terminals. Say, something that only spits out ammo boxes and refills for the Medic and Engineering applicators. This way cheap people can't just sit there and buy medkits and new armor to fight off wounds, but those with proper support classes can keep the bunker crew alive.

If you add this stuff to the official forums, please feel free to tack on my comments if you find them useful. I won't be able to get home and do so for a few more hours.

Trebor95 · 2003-07-16, 05:08 PM

Ooooohhh I just thought of something.

Ok, bridges. At each end they have bunkers right (usually, if not put them there) these bunkers will be bigger and better protected than the stupid things we have now which the devs seemes to just stick there (on an elevation perhaps).

Ok in these bunkers there will be a CC like one in a tower. They control an energy gate or some sort of barrier on the bridge which when engaged acts like trying to fly into an enemy sanctuary warp gate, you cant get past it.

Now the CC in the bunkers will control this, basically you have to hack one to raise the shield on that side, therefore one attacking force could hold the CC on their side of the bridge meaning the barrier will be down on their side, but if the enemy holds it on the other side; the barrier will be up = bridge unpassable.

Ok, for this to be overcome, a galaxy could fly over and behind then deploy troops who then assault the bunker to gain access to the CC to lower the barrier.

Or, a crazy deliverer driver could cross the water somewhere with a small force (probably cloakers) or a couple of deliverers with an assault squad who again would assault the bunker.

The bunker system would probably comprise of a rear area/defense from the one entrance with barrier inside/firing positions to cover the door like a room in a base, it could have a med terminal but probably no equipment terminal (or a limited terminal as has been said) there would also be an emergency exit/entry which could have less of a basis for cover and provide a "safer" entry point for cloaker, an assualt squad could draw the fire and attention while the cloaker slips in and brings down the shield, which could have a 5 minute lockout before the enemy could re-establish it, perhaps longer to allow the enemy to storm through and thoroughly take the bunker.

Then from this rear area a tunnel system (obviously not straight) as to avoid direct LOS to the bunker front from the rear) with small areas on the way like locker room (already said and medical area) with the normal notches in the wall for covering positions, and finally the bunker front (revamped of course) with proper firing steps, smaller gun slots (less of a target) 1 or 2 spaces for max units to provide fire. and deepened, larger room for ability to fall back from the front to repair, rearm.

This would make bridges the choke points/defense that they should be, it would enable skilled stealthers to bring down the barriers and be the one who successfully unleashes an assault onto an enemy base, it would increase the use of the deliverer, the bridge could become a death zone for unwitting tanks, forces who didnt check to see if the field was down - prey to libs, reavers, etc. and the attacking force would need air support.

However saying that it would have to be balanced, a lone soldier or small squad may find it hard/impossible to get near the base.

A lodestar when out could deploy an AMS behind the lines also to add ot the tactical options open. the enemy could set up an ambush nearby (flank the enemy) as they approach the bridge to trap them between two forces.

my �0.02

thats my 2 pence for you Americans

Nixon · 2003-07-16, 06:30 PM

I think in the offcial forums something was mentioned about having like vehicle barriers that deploy on the bridge and is controlled by a switch in a nearby bunkers. This way, infantry can still run across... and it'd be quite interesting to see a column of tanks get trapped in the kill box. Basically a CC in each bunker, and your empire has to control both to gain access. The barriers can be force barriers of some sort...

Also, I think somebody said it'd be interesting to have draw bridges of some sort. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing bridges with perhaps some catwalk beneath it. Nice fire fights going on, people falling off and into the water... maybe give the bridge a limited SOI and give further incentive to wage war in the country-side. Oh boy, if you thought Hossin was hell...

Trebor95 · 2003-07-16, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by Nixon
I think in the offcial forums something was mentioned about having like vehicle barriers that deploy on the bridge and is controlled by a switch in a nearby bunkers. This way, infantry can still run across... and it'd be quite interesting to see a column of tanks get trapped in the kill box. Basically a CC in each bunker, and your empire has to control both to gain access. The barriers can be force barriers of some sort...

Also, I think somebody said it'd be interesting to have draw bridges of some sort. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing bridges with perhaps some catwalk beneath it. Nice fire fights going on, people falling off and into the water... maybe give the bridge a limited SOI and give further incentive to wage war in the country-side. Oh boy, if you thought Hossin was hell...

I must have missed that post in the mass of all the trash (for the most part) over there

Apologies

Nixon · 2003-07-16, 06:37 PM

Actually, I think we're talking weeks ago... like maybe a week after the game came out somebody proposed the idea.

Zentenk VA · 2003-07-16, 08:18 PM

Yeah, I like to get in bunkers and i say /s Hey lets get in the bunkers and set up D.... everyone then makes fun of me

ObnoxiousFrog · 2003-07-16, 09:17 PM

I say a mounted 20mm machine gun in each bunker would make them more like...you know....REAL bunkers. And you could kill the man manning the gun as opposed to him being pretty much invincible as a gunner in a harasser or other buggy.