More TW user PS Beta NDA Breakage. - Page 6

Navaron · 2003-03-31, 09:02 PM

Heh,

I guarentee {BOHICA} Clan was around before him. It's fairly common though, I've seen a few variations of it.

mr_luc · 2003-03-31, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by LogRoller
To set the stage for pre-judgement, I don't think PS will be very successful, but I'm certainly open to hearing why people think otherwise. I'll definitely demo the game.

I'm going to go out on a limb of my own here:

I predict that from half to two-thirds of Tribes players that got hooked on DAoC will get hooked on PS.

I mean, even games like Shadowbane get their moment in the sun on TW, just because it's such a strong community. Or, fuck, remember WWII Online? There were a bunch that gave that a whirl when it first started, to see what it was like (and I think they all returned it, lol) but unlike SB and WWIIOL and AO, DAoC really stuck around with some Tribers. I think PS is going to do the same, because you never heard a single good thing on TW about DAoC until just about a week after it came out, and then -- BOOM. PS already has quite a few supporters on TW that think it shows a lot of promise, and I am certain that it has WAAAAAY more people that will buy the game and try it for the free period.

Well, that's half the battle for SoE -- if they don't think it sucks they won't return it.

I think that, initially at least, Tribers are going to make up a worth-noticing chunk of the PS playerbase.

Jason · 2003-03-31, 09:42 PM

I demand better smiles for my post.

,

, :o , and this

are just gay. afex should know better and so should hamma.

OneManArmy · 2003-03-31, 09:46 PM

there are a lot more smilies ya know. just hit the get more button... then you don't have to use :o you can use

Jason · 2003-03-31, 09:50 PM

not the point. if i want to have an "i suck dick" face, then i'll use :o . and if i want to use "i'll smash your fuck" smilie, i'll use

. but you can't expect me to use :o if i really want to go

LogRoller · 2003-03-31, 09:53 PM

My major concern, luc, is Dave G. I apologize to anyone who views that as inflammatory, but hear me out for a bit.

After his failure on Tribes 2, I researched the man's career a little, and he falls into this pattern of (1) Community interaction and marketing (2) Release a buggy product that attempts to do too much, and (3) Move on, blaming the publisher for lack of support. That's pretty boiled down, mind you.

On TW, before Tribes 2 came out, there were a few DG haters who were complaining about his contribution to other games, and they were roundly flamed down. I supported DG and stuck up for him quite a bit at the time, so I understand some of the attitude here towards TW's haters. Ironically, there was also a big flame thread about people posting screens from the beta in public. It was, under the NDA, forbidden (as was it to admit that you were even on the beta), and some people tried to get other people kicked off the beta, just as Vermillion is trying to do now. But I digress.

I think that DG is a bad producer. He is a decent marketer, but I would not trust anything he says, nor would I trust any product he produced until I got my hands on a demo of some sort. I'd like to think that he was able to take away some lessons learned from his Tribes 2 experience, but his parting posts on TW were indicative of an egoist who was incapable of accepting responsibility. I'm amazed that Sony gave him a job with a fat signing bonus and all.

Between the potential for a game that has the potential for a catastrpohic release, and the pay to play factor, I think that the game has some challenges ahead. People here have posted a lot of opinions about the details, but the fact remains that the target audience is an intersection of gamers from two traditional and well established markets that tend to have divergent attitudes towards the offering and its business model.

I'm sure I'll change my mind as I continue to learn about this game, but that's my starting position.

OmnipotentKiwi · 2003-03-31, 11:07 PM

Even if that is true, there are plenty of other people besides DG involved with the game. Most importantly, he isn't truly in charge.

I know that Smed is above him, for one. Smed definitely seems like a huge PR guy behind the scenes from what I hear through the rumor mill. He likes feedback from players, and takes it often in higher regard then devs, which can be a good and a bad thing.

Also there is plenty of talent below DG as well.

Simply basing the game on one person will just lead to a bad pre-judgement, and like you said, you will probably change your mind later.

On a side note. I agree, this game could absolutely fail horribly and meet very little expectations, but it would take a lot to do that.

Also, it can be a great game as well, but it needs to go above and beyond anything we have ever seen before to be equivalent, since it is a pay to play game.

I really won't say much about my opinion, but there is definitely potential.

And to respond to:

Originally posted by SonGohan
and Bohica is a guy from TW? Why is he a clan here?

Considering BOHICA is a fairly well known military accronym, I wouldn't be suprised to find it in lots of gaming locations, especially those related to the military.

LogRoller · 2003-03-31, 11:34 PM

If DG is the producer, which I understand he is, he is essentially the project manager of the team. People can be above him and below him, and he could still have the greatest capacity to mess things up.

Producers need to manage resources, set schedules, communicate with the business, develop and implement testing strategies, and control costs. They might have help, but they essentially control the largest aspects of making the game. Historically, he has also heavily impacted game design when given the opportunity - to the detriment of the marketability of the game. This is outside the traditional role of the producer.

I'm not basing my judgement of the game itself on DG - I am pre-judging the game as a saleable product. The output will be a hodge-podge of different designers' and artists' visions - and incidentally, some of the PS design changed to a T2 bent after DG got on the team. That's irrelevant. What's scarier is this: will it work, and will it come out on time?

Since I have little invested in anticipation, I certainly have the time. So then, it just needs to work. If it works, I'll be the first to buy in and try it. We'll see how it goes.

OmnipotentKiwi · 2003-04-01, 01:14 AM

I just think that you overestimate the power of a producer under Sony.

All the projects DG has ever been involved in, in comparison to this one, have been extremely small. This game is being created by one of the biggest money forces in American online gaming, and believe DG is being watch and directed like a hawk. I have no doubt, even as producer, that he doesn't have as much control as you say.

There isn't much more I can argue with though yet, it's too early. There is still a stringent NDA in existance for beta testers, and the game is still a month and a half off from its projected release date.

I think we can all agree though, that it will be the best MMOFPS out there, since all it has to do is beat WWIIOL.

Matuse · 2003-04-01, 04:56 AM

Since, Matuse, my sincere question was left unanswered,

Your question didn't really deserve much of an answer, but persistance works too, so here we are. Phrasing a "go away" in a calm and collective manner when facing the 5-year-old mentality of dumbshits who post annoying trolls, simply doesn't work. It is regretable that you have to resort to their mentality to get any kind of point across. I didn't honestly expect anything to happen, but if even ONE troll decided it just wasn't worth it, then it was time well spent. As a pure side-issue, I derive immense amusement from seeing morons who think that "******" is the ultimate insult flail about with their pathetic flames.

and since you referred to me as a "waste of skin" when I have done literally nothing whatsoever to provoke you, I can only hope that you are not representative of the others that comrpise this community, or I dare say that it is indeed comparable in tenor and maturity to Tribalwar.

And I could hope that the 5 pages or so of the TW thread that I read before it got repetitive and boring wouldn't be representative of the TW posters, but they came here and proved that wrong. This thread would have died on page 2 if not for the incoming flood of the dumbass brigade, of which you seem to be a member. Don't care to be lumped in with the refuse? Then don't walk with them.

recruits

Idiots...especially ones who think that post count means anything beyond number of posts:

LogRoller · 2003-04-01, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Matuse
Don't care to be lumped in with the refuse? Then don't walk with them.

That is advice from which you yourself could benefit.

thegame109 · 2003-04-01, 10:37 AM

I really can't see the problem with these beta screen shots.I mean it's no diffrent than what psu are doing.WITH permission from SOE i mgiht add,but really it's only a few pics.
Allthough he broke the NDA i don't really see this as a HUGE violation as he has only said a few things nothing to write home about,allthough it is still wrong to break the NDA he signed!!.

Seer · 2003-04-01, 01:33 PM

I see the NDA breaker has a good grasp of logical fallacy.