Why not have Heavy as an option for every class?

[CutterJohn]

I'd be fine with a heavy medic/engineer. The important question is not should they be able to, but what would they have to give up to do so.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I'd be fine with a heavy medic/engineer. The important question is not should they be able to, but what would they have to give up to do so.

Exactly. Why would I play anything else other then a heavy engi outdoors? Just like REXO with a lasher/lancer with some repair.

[Coreldan]

I did mention ideas as to what would they give up for it too.

Inability to enter certain vehicles as one, slower run speed for second, those are sorta the two most obvious I can come up with, other stuff can be done as well if you really want to. Overall I'm pretty sure they could make it to a point where going heavy <everything> wouldnt be the way to go every time and for everyone.

As said, for me this idea popped up more through the fact that I really like the looks of TR HA armor and I think it goes waste if it's just for one class. Naturally though they probably wouldnt make the heavy armor an optional customization thingimabob that would have no effect on gameplay, so that's why I started thinking more about how they would actually be heavy and not just look like it.

But overall with your logic, why would you ever play Light Assault over Heavy Assault? I'm sure there are ways to balance Heavy and Light for medic and engineer as well.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

I did mention ideas as to what would they give up for it too.

Inability to enter certain vehicles as one, slower run speed for second, those are sorta the two most obvious I can come up with, other stuff can be done as well if you really want to. Overall I'm pretty sure they could make it to a point where going heavy <everything> wouldnt be the way to go every time and for everyone.

As said, for me this idea popped up more through the fact that I really like the looks of TR HA armor and I think it goes waste if it's just for one class. Naturally though they probably wouldnt make the heavy armor an optional customization thingimabob that would have no effect on gameplay, so that's why I started thinking more about how they would actually be heavy and not just look like it.

But overall with your logic, why would you ever play Light Assault over Heavy Assault? I'm sure there are ways to balance Heavy and Light for medic and engineer as well.

This just goes back to PS1 though. Why is allowing heavy for medic/engi any different then having the old REXO/med/engi/AV certs that filled PS1? The stated reason by the devs is balance and variability.

If you give heavy armor to medic and engi why play heavy? I'll admit I'm not familiar with PS2's class system and how the inventory changes by class. But if my Heavy Medic can use both a healing pack and a heavy assault rifle with heavy shields thats pretty op no?

[Goku]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

I think it's pretty clear at this point, I'm afraid.

I doubt they wouldn't have mentioned anything about that this far into the development. Any and all references to the heavier armors have always been about Heavy Assaults, which is a class of it's own.

That said, if I'm wrong (and even if I was right, getting some dev to comment on how this decision was made etc would be super cool), I'm sure some dev could pop by and correct me?

Pretty sure they have REXO. You haven't seen the TR character with the huge armor padding compared with the other armor types?

http://www.planetside-universe.com/m...hp?img_id=1679

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

This just goes back to PS1 though. Why is allowing heavy for medic/engi any different then having the old REXO/med/engi/AV certs that filled PS1? The stated reason by the devs is balance and variability.

If you give heavy armor to medic and engi why play heavy? I'll admit I'm not familiar with PS2's class system and how the inventory changes by class. But if my Heavy Medic can use both a healing pack and a heavy assault rifle with heavy shields thats pretty op no?

Heavy Medics couldn't use Heavy Assault weapons (Lasher/MCG/JH, LMG's, Heavy Gauss/Cycler/Pulsar, Thumper/Rocklet equivalents, ESAV/Decis, and whatever other Heavy NS weapons they come up with). Nor could they carry a second rifle-sized weapon at the same time as their primary weapon.

Engies might be able to use AV (don't think the Devs have said one way or the other), but they probably wouldn't be able to use the othe above weapons either.


The Heavy Assault Class OTOH, would have no such restriction.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Goku

Pretty sure they have REXO. You haven't seen the TR character with the huge armor padding compared with the other armor types?

http://www.planetside-universe.com/m...hp?img_id=1679

Not sure if I'm following you, since that is exactly what I refer to with my whole thread. We have very good reasons to believe that the armor you linked is only for the heavy assault class. As in, you can't wear that armor if you are for example engineer or medic.

And cos I find it such an amazing armor, I would like the option to not be forced to a single class if I'd wanna use it. I mean after all they've said theres a lot of stuff to customize with, I think looking like that compared to looking like the light armor is a huge customizing-decision.

@ArmedZealot, in my original thoughts I actually didn't consider giving fe. Heavy Medic the access to heavy weaponry though. I was mainly thinking about the armor side of things. You get the goodies of the armor itself which might be more HP/shield/something and the looks of it, but you trade away for example mobility (in terms of runspeed and vehicles) that the light armors have.

Heavy Medic and Engi could still be limited to the normal Gauss/Gauss Carbine (and so on for each faction) even if they were allowed to have heavy armor. I think that would be the heavy assault classes niche, what makes it heavy in it's niche (assault, as in not much of a niche except shooting) is the heavier weaponry. Then again, I do agree that I guess that would make heavy assault more specific than heavy medic or heavy engi, who would just have the bonuses of the heavier armor.

To emphasis once again, even if this in no way tries to counter some of the arguments: My approach with this discussion was in the looks. I made the thread cos I'd like the option to use an armor similar to what the Heavy Assault has. I do not want this cos I want to be a super durable medic with heavy weapons. Hell, I'm even ready to just have this as a visual thing: no changes in stats or anything whatsoever, your armor only looks different, but I know this idea would've been more opposed as it would be fairly illogical and confusing.

Also, I can guarantee you that having more health and bigger weapons didn't mean there was no reason to play any other body build in Brink. Very few people actually played heavy characters, cos they were not a direct upgrade to the lighter bodysizes (one could even argue that the light and heavy sizes had too much downsides, cos vast majority went for medium size), which is what can eaisly be done here too if they'd want to, but I still dont expect that this would ever get implemented at this point anymore, Im mostly just playing with the idea Although then again, Brink had far higher emphasis on mobility than PS2 per se, as Brink had the vaulting and wall running etc, which made major differences to the body builds.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

I did mention ideas as to what would they give up for it too.

Inability to enter certain vehicles as one, slower run speed for second, those are sorta the two most obvious I can come up with, other stuff can be done as well if you really want to. Overall I'm pretty sure they could make it to a point where going heavy <everything> wouldnt be the way to go every time and for everyone.

As said, for me this idea popped up more through the fact that I really like the looks of TR HA armor and I think it goes waste if it's just for one class. Naturally though they probably wouldnt make the heavy armor an optional customization thingimabob that would have no effect on gameplay, so that's why I started thinking more about how they would actually be heavy and not just look like it.

But overall with your logic, why would you ever play Light Assault over Heavy Assault? I'm sure there are ways to balance Heavy and Light for medic and engineer as well.

Those are pretty minimal tradeoffs.

Giving up your rifle would be a far more realistic one, so that you're stuck with a pistol or PDW of some sort. You can only carry so much. If you want to lug around that pack, med app, and heavy armor, you're going to have to give something up.

Not sure if I'm following you, since that is exactly what I refer to with my whole thread. We have very good reasons to believe that the armor you linked is only for the heavy assault class. As in, you can't wear that armor if you are for example engineer or medic.

I can't wear MAX armor or Cloaking armor as an engineer or medic either, so its not exactly unprecedented. 3 classes have unique armor, and 3 somewhat share a more generic 'standard issue' armor, though with some differences.


Though tbh, I could totally see Engineers getting access to MAX armors. Who better to wear a heavy motorized exosuit than engineers? Just give em one 'light' variant of a MAX weapon, and a super CE dispursing or repair arm.

[sylphaen]

You made your choice and took REXO Medic instead of a x3 revive grenade ? You hate to aim but love to dodge ? Great ! Now get in that line of fire asap and make the magic happen, Johnny !

Dance, dance, revolution !

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Those are pretty minimal tradeoffs.

Giving up your rifle would be a far more realistic one, so that you're stuck with a pistol or PDW of some sort. You can only carry so much. If you want to lug around that pack, med app, and heavy armor, you're going to have to give something up.

I can't wear MAX armor or Cloaking armor as an engineer or medic either.

Perhaps they are minimal, however I'm sure if they/we wanted to, we could easily come up with something else or something more. Those are just examples that popped into my head at the moment of typing.

As for the MAX/infil armor example. Perhaps it's just me but I dont feel that is comparable. Both are sorta very specific in their niche, while light and heavy armor arn't so specifically niched. But I guess that's just me, but do you honestly think that having a heavy armor medic and a max armor medic are comparable? Then again, we dont know exactly how MAXs are gonna turn out at this point, really, but still. As for infil armor, it has the niche of stealthing, which is why it's so special and why I've left it out.

That said, your logic about the "heavier armor, you can carry less" is at least realism wise logical, but I actually thought about it the other way around, sorta like in PS1, where RExo meant you could carry more, rather than less.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

Perhaps they are minimal, however I'm sure if they/we wanted to, we could easily come up with something else or something more. Those are just examples that popped into my head at the moment of typing.

As for the MAX/infil armor example. Perhaps it's just me but I dont feel that is comparable. Both are sorta very specific in their niche, while light and heavy armor arn't so specifically niched. But I guess that's just me, but do you honestly think that having a heavy armor medic and a max armor medic are comparable? Then again, we dont know exactly how MAXs are gonna turn out at this point, really, but still. As for infil armor, it has the niche of stealthing, which is why it's so special and why I've left it out.

That said, your logic about the "heavier armor, you can carry less" is at least realism wise logical, but I actually thought about it the other way around, sorta like in PS1, where RExo meant you could carry more, rather than less.

Meh I think this discussion is best left till closed beta at least so we can see how the class system pans out in terms of balance and gameplay. When we can actually see what the maps and bases look like, and how combat pans out.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

That said, your logic about the "heavier armor, you can carry less" is at least realism wise logical, but I actually thought about it the other way around, sorta like in PS1, where RExo meant you could carry more, rather than less.

Yes, but Rexo was imba. It was a direct upgrade in almost all respects to agile. The only thing you gave up was the ability to drive, a small bit of speed(And I think implants were more expensive? I cannot recall atm), which was completely dwarfed by the increased carrying capacity, extra slot, and extra armor. Only time agile was on something of an even level with rexo was during surgile.

Only reason anyone ever used agile is because they didn't have rexo, or were just driving(and quadshot surgile, ofc)

PS: I edited my last post with other thoughts.

[Kriegson]

Hell, why not just allow all the classes to co-mingle?

Cloaking max with self rez abilities and tank weapons and squad spawn for the entire faction (or faction spawn, if you will).

Sounds legit.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Yes, but Rexo was imba. It was a direct upgrade in almost all respects to agile. The only thing you gave up was the ability to drive, a small bit of speed(And I think implants were more expensive? I cannot recall atm), which was completely dwarfed by the increased carrying capacity, extra slot, and extra armor. Only time agile was on something of an even level with rexo was during surgile.

Only reason anyone ever used agile is because they didn't have rexo, or were just driving(and quadshot surgile, ofc)

PS: I edited my last post with other thoughts.

Yeah you are right about all that. I didn't like how RExo was an upgrade over agile in just about all ways either. And its certainly not what I was after with this idea, I hate direct upgrades in general (APB had plenty of em >.<)

The idea of Engi MAX sounds quite awesome though Sorta reminds me of those bomb suits in fe. Hurt Locker

[Serotriptomine]

I'm fine with the class system. No, medics should not have Heavy Armor, I could see engineers maybe. But apart from Heavy Infantry, and "Heavy Engineer" no other class should have the choice for Heavy Armor. No matter what they give up.