TR Max lockdown - Not again!

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

I don't need to, devs are doing it for me. Whole reason why I chose this side of the argument.

They didn't manage it in the last 8 years.....
My arguement is the design as it is in PS1 doesn't let it be balanced and they should redesign it. I've given reasons and explanations.

You've said "Dev's will deal with it". You really have no arguement.

[xSlideShow]

Originally Posted by Redshift

They didn't manage it in the last 8 years.....
My arguement is the design as it is in PS1 doesn't let it be balanced and they should redesign it. I've given reasons and explanations.

You've said "Dev's will deal with it". You really have no arguement.

No I said the I'm letting the devs take of how to balance it. And that was pretty much a joke... Cause you see your on the opposition it's your job to come up with a reason for it to be changed... I need no evidence to support the role that it's fine... Cause it's already the way I want it.

All they have to do it make it so the benefits of locking down are a buff= the what your giving up. While at the same time making the unlocked down version balanced with the other 2 maxes. This is if they don't use their specials and you don't use yours then you are on par with them.

And please quit posting if all your gonna say is "easier said then done".

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

No I said the I'm letting the devs take of how to balance it. And that was pretty much a joke... Cause you see your on the opposition it's your job to come up with a reason for it to be changed... I need no evidence to support the role that it's fine... Cause it's already the way I want it.

All they have to do it make it so the benefits of locking down are a buff= the what your giving up. While at the same time making the unlocked down version balanced with the other 2 maxes. This is if they don't use their specials and you don't use yours then you are on par with them.

And please quit posting if all your gonna say is "easier said then done".

Have you read the rest of this thread? i've mentioned plenty of ways of making it work. not once have i said it's "easier said than done", i've said it's impossible, which it is....

And it's not about buffing the locked down state till it equals what you're giving up, because like it has done for the last 8 years that makes it overpowered in certain situations and useless in others.

[xSlideShow]

Originally Posted by Redshift

Have you read the rest of this thread? i've mentioned plenty of ways of making it work. not once have i said it's "easier said than done", i've said it's impossible, which it is....

And it's not about buffing the locked down state till it equals what you're giving up, because like it has done for the last 8 years that makes it overpowered in certain situations and useless in others.

Which it should be "OP" in certain situations. That's what makes it a specialized weapon.

You misunderstand my words. So I'm not gonna reiterate them.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

Which it should be "OP" in certain situations. That's what makes it a specialized weapon.

If you think the best way to design a game is to make some weapons overpowered then you know jack. Waste of time talking to you.

[xSlideShow]

Originally Posted by Redshift

If you think the best way to design a game is to make some weapons overpowered then you know jack. Waste of time talking to you.

lol, again you misunderstand my words. I said it should be OP in certain situations. I didn't say every situation. Any good weapon is OP if it's used properly. Your just looking to flame at this point.

[Traak]

Originally Posted by Redshift

You really have no arguement.

You could say that to a dictionary, too.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Redshift

ofc it's flawed, you have a weapon with two dps modes and no limitations on their use, imagine the MCG did double damage if you wern't moving, you have to pick one of the modes to balance the way it was in PS1

Sure. Let me demonstrate the factors that can be tweaked to arrive at balance.

Locked-down field of fire -- 120 degrees? 45 degrees? 270 degrees? Adjustable to control how big a disadvantage the fixed facing is, and how easy it is to flank a locked down MAX.

Locked down rate of fire. This assumes you balance the unlocked MAX against other MAXes not using their specials, and then you can give and take from ROF buff and the various vulnerabilities lockdown imposes so that it is ALSO balanced.

Lock/Unlock time. Reducing the lockdown time obviously makes the ability more versatile, as well as making the overall MAX more powerful (remember, unlocked is balanced against other MAXes w/o use of specials) outright, increasing lockdown time will reduce the amount of time the average MAX is able to take advantage of the benefit.

There. That's 3 factors that can be adjusted independently (and none of which alter the balance of the unlocked MAX) to balance lockdown. And I spent 3 minutes on this post.

[Graywolves]

The Burster MAX's only advantage is it's speed and silence. It's not like the flak locks on to you. If you're hovering in place, you deserve to die. If you afterburn away and still die, you were either in open airspace with nowhere to run(deserve to die) or the burster max was really good/lucky in predicting your movement/leading you(deserves the kill).

I don't know why this is turning into something entirely about the burster max. A reaver can solo a lockeddown one no problem if he's not retarded. But oh that's assuming there's only one? There actually generally is only one.....

Getting more kills on complacent pilots doesn't make it the best. The purpose of the AA max is to keep the airspace clear. All of them do that fine.


Now get back into real MAX discussion.

Lockdown sucks.

[Kalbuth]

Someone dare say a TR MAX may not be poo, this guy must be shot, immediatly!!! Die, heretic, die!!!

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by kaffis

Sure. Let me demonstrate the factors that can be tweaked to arrive at balance.

Locked-down field of fire -- 120 degrees? 45 degrees? 270 degrees? Adjustable to control how big a disadvantage the fixed facing is, and how easy it is to flank a locked down MAX.

Locked down rate of fire. This assumes you balance the unlocked MAX against other MAXes not using their specials, and then you can give and take from ROF buff and the various vulnerabilities lockdown imposes so that it is ALSO balanced.

Lock/Unlock time. Reducing the lockdown time obviously makes the ability more versatile, as well as making the overall MAX more powerful (remember, unlocked is balanced against other MAXes w/o use of specials) outright, increasing lockdown time will reduce the amount of time the average MAX is able to take advantage of the benefit.

There. That's 3 factors that can be adjusted independently (and none of which alter the balance of the unlocked MAX) to balance lockdown. And I spent 3 minutes on this post.

Two of those make no difference because you can lockdown before combat and arc doesn't matter if you're pointing at a choke point, the rate of fire is all they have left and that's what they use now. Think about it they could make it a 5 min lock down with a 5 degree arc and you'd still run into one going through a door.
RoF doesn't work because it takes it back to the two different dps problem.

[xSlideShow]

Originally Posted by Redshift

Two of those make no difference because you can lockdown before combat and arc doesn't matter if you're pointing at a choke point, the rate of fire is all they have left and that's what they use now. Think about it they could make it a 5 min lock down with a 5 degree arc and you'd still run into one going through a door.
RoF doesn't work because it takes it back to the two different dps problem.

The two dps problem isn't really an issue.

Originally Posted by Redshift

you can't balance two different dps's (nothing apart from dps changes, it's not like a trade where you may get more RoF and less accuracy, it's a straight up dps increase)

The later of this is not true because,it is a trade off. You are trading your mobility for increased accuracy and ROF.

[Traak]

On a lighter note, how about a supermax that, if you work hard enough for it, can jumpjet up into space, lock down in midair, turn on shields, then equip a sniper rifle for OSK's?

Okay, back to the topic at hand...

I like lockdown, a lot. I didn't feel motivated to remain a Sparrow MAX, didn't seem productive. I think the number of people that choose a cert such as MAX, or sniper, or whatever, will indicate how OP it is. Along with kill ratios. Along with overall empire numbers. So, I am EAGERLY looking forward to the various empires' choices of weapons and weapon systems, because the fun of finding their weaknesses and working around them, and maximally using their strengths is something I love to do.

I could design F1 cars for a living. I don't have to ever drive one, I just like application of best available solutions to a given set of problems. And the various empires will come with advantages and limitations.

Lockdown FTW!

[Kouza]

You mad bro?

[Accuser]

Originally Posted by kaffis

Lock/Unlock time. Reducing the lockdown time obviously makes the ability more versatile, as well as making the overall MAX more powerful (remember, unlocked is balanced against other MAXes w/o use of specials) outright, increasing lockdown time will reduce the amount of time the average MAX is able to take advantage of the benefit.

This makes lockdown 100% balanceable. If you still don't like it, you'll just have to find a different empire.

If lockdown/unlock is only 0.5 seconds and gives a significant dps/defense boost, it will be very popular. Give it similar unlocked balance as other MAXes which aren't using their special abilities and you're set.

Yes it will be better for defense than for offense. Deal with it.