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Old 2011-10-01, 05:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #31
RedKnights
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Yea I really don't think you should be whining about such things at this point until you see how it's implemented. With the overall faster pace of gameplay it stands to reason the switching would be about the same amount of time.

The fact is though the TR lockdown was viable in PS1, unless you were stupid. And the amount of DPS is dished out while locked down, coupled with indirect fire capabilities, made it quite formidable and quite a bit of fun.

Also, the burster was awesome, possibly the best MAX in the game in terms of how it can change the dynamic of a fight outdoors
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Old 2011-10-01, 05:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #32
Krowe
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Lockdown is what made those suits useful at all, plus it fits with the TR ideal of 'Dakka dakka dakka'.
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Old 2011-10-01, 06:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #33
Captain B
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Why does the TR MAX have to be "as good as" VS or NC MAXes in every variant (AI, AV, AA)? The scatMAX of NC was awesome in close quarters, but in open field combat or semi-long range? I'd bet money the TR with dual cannons would be able to drop the NC MAX and his buddies in such situations.

The TR MAX is for defense. It can still move and shoot with the rest of them and be effective in general, but it shines as a defensive unit. That's where its advantages lie. That's like comparing the Gauss and Cycler. At longer ranges I dropped people with ease with the Cycler, but I never could keep those magnetically charged rounds from landing on target with my Gauss unless it was pretty close.

Different weapons, different advantages, different disadvantages.
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Old 2011-10-01, 07:06 PM   [Ignore Me] #34
Xyntech
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


I hope to see all empires have a good sized pool of weapons and special abilities to choose from.

Maybe a TR MAX without the lockdown ability has a more average TTK, but one with lockdown installed has a longer TTK that gets significantly lower when it locks down.

If it isn't strong enough to justify locking down, buff it. If it's too strong when not locked down (when it has the ability slotted), nerf it. Give it a higher TTK and/or more armor, but I think it is a very iconic ability that would be a shame to get rid of completely.

On the other hand, hopefully some alternate special abilities give some options for those who like to play as a MAX and like the TR but hate to lock down.
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Old 2011-10-01, 09:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #35
Geist
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People are making too big a deal of lockdown, first off is this game will be a huge improvement in terms of net code and game mechanics, and second, it wasn't that bad in the PS1. Lockdown was what made defense fun for me, point in the general direction of the door, have someone behind me repairing, and yelling "STEEL REHN STEEL REHN STEEL REHN!!!" :P
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Old 2011-10-01, 10:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #36
Sifer2
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Lockdown can be made strong. In the Beta the TR MAX's were widely considered to be way overpowered in fact. Allowed them to lockdown chokepoints to a ridiculous degree. If they bring it back they just need to be considering how strong its going to be and design their maps around this. The power has to be worth being a sitting duck but at the same time can't completely control a part of the map an make it unable to be attacked.
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Old 2011-10-02, 05:33 AM   [Ignore Me] #37
xSlideShow
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Think about it this way imo. Lock down can be pretty good, they already mentioned you can have 2 different guns on your Max. AV + AI? Lock down D you could handle anything. Or AA Lock Down with AV... Yeah you can't rush in like l33t Rambo Scatmax over there but you have a better K/D.
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Old 2011-10-02, 11:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #38
kaffis
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo View Post
Would lockdown suffice if it also regenerated armor? That would increase survivability (say 4 decis) while also giving lowered TTK in trade for movement. The goal is as always to make something that's not an unstoppable machine but a significant threat that takes skill to use.
So TR lockdown gives increased offense + defense mitigating its immobility? Great, does that mean NC can shoot through shields, too?

Trying to boost defense with lockdown steps on NC shield territory too easily, IMO.
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Old 2011-10-02, 12:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #39
GTGD
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


I can't believe the TR are STILL crying about "balance issues" after the JH tripleshot nerf, the lasher nerf, and all of the buffs they got over the years.

The lockdown ability wasn't meant to be an unstoppable "I win" button the way you seem to want it to be. Locking down in a vulnerable area is the equivalent of a scatmax engaging someone with a striker in the middle of a field with a large distance separating the two. The DC rips through both infantry and MAXes, and with a clip so large it can easily mow down an entire squad. The only penalty is that it can't move. It's not only a defensive advantage, but an offensive one as well. By holding the line, it makes it easier to push forward without giving up any ground. And what are you complaining about, the lack of the ability to move at a whopping 3km/hr? So you're asking for the fastest TTK with the largest clips while retaining the ability to move back behind cover?

Don't get me started on the Pounder or Burster. Isn't it enough the Pounder can rip through an NC MAXs' shield and armor before that NC MAX could kill it, even if it could shoot through the shield? How about the fact that it can hit around corners that the other MAX would be stepping behind?

Isn't it enough that the Burster can sit against a wall and take out any aircraft without warning who steps within his 120 degree field of fire in a couple seconds flat?


This complaining is coming from the same people who abused the Pounder as an AI MAX that could take out entire clusters faster than a Scat could point-blank. The same people whose DC MAX functioned the same as a 35mm cannon on a GG does for vehicles (except faster traveling).
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Old 2011-10-02, 12:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #40
Graywolves
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


I don't care so much that the TR Max is vulnerable when locked down.


It's that our MAX is horrible compared to the other two when mobile and they still have abilities to use against us.

And the DC can't beat any MAX 1v1 even when locked down, don't make false assumptions and press them as facts.
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Old 2011-10-02, 01:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #41
Arkaiden
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


A thousand times what GTGD said.

The last time I played this year TR MAXes were dominating everyone. They'd lockdown just behind a ridge and destroy all of the vehicles in a base more often than not with just three MAXes. And that's just the AV MAXes.
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Old 2011-10-02, 01:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #42
GTGD
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


When the DC is locked down, it has a .640 seconds longer TTK than a Scatmax at point-blank where every pellet from the wide spread hits.

If the Scatmax misses the equivalent of 2 shots (assured if combat isn't taking place at less than 1m away), its TTK jumps and becomes .360 seconds longer than the DC.


Interesting...it's almost as if a shotgun is more effective at close ranges, yet the shotgun becomes much less effective as range increases!

If you're asking for equal TTK at point-blank range between a chaingun and a shotgun, and then want to give the shotgun a huge disadvantage in longer ranges, you are out of your fucking mind.

As for abilities, NC MAXes gain defensive power in exchange for not being able to attack. TR MAXes gain offensive power in exchange for not being able to defend. VS MAXes gain some defensive power in exchange for some offensive power. In addition, TR MAXes can activate their lockdown ability at any time for any amount of time. NC and VS MAXes have to charge their capacitor from nothing and using their abilities drains it quickly.
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Old 2011-10-02, 02:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #43
Trolltaxi
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Lockdown is/was awesome as it was. It was an advantege when you could position yourself into a good position (preferably with a cover infront and long range to the target). I know, I have always had the cert at least for the AA-max.

This special ability required teamwork to be on it's full potential. Our outfit had a pretty tough towerdrop technique with 2 maxes and the rest of the squad supporting them. I wish I could show you how effectively it worked, when 2 maxes anchored on the top of the stairs, fired the shells with 3 secs fuse, and whatever came we blowed that to pieces...

Or holding the gen with pounders, firing into the entry room with that console thingy... sweet memories.

Defending the AMP station CC from the outer rim. Holding a DROPSHIP BD from the sloope after the first junction with some repair on you... yummie!

Sometimes it felt so heroic! I remember a magrider chargin' on me, I made my stand, anchored down, Pshield on, dakka-dakka-dakka-dakka and it exploded almost on my chestplate! And I survived.

Same with mossies and reavers... You or me, bastard! MAXES DIE ON FOOT!

The ability was perfect, hands down. Lack of killing power without anchors (esp. for the DC) was bad though. But that is the problem of the design of the unit, not the design of the ability.
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Old 2011-10-02, 03:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #44
SuperMorto
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Please don't call this an FPS, that is kept for other games, this is a MMOFPS, witch makes things a whole whole whole whole.......... whole lot different!

Morto,
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Old 2011-10-02, 03:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #45
Redshift
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Re: TR MAX LOCKDOWN - NOT AGAIN!


Originally Posted by GTGD View Post
When the DC is locked down, it has a .640 seconds longer TTK than a Scatmax at point-blank where every pellet from the wide spread hits.

If the Scatmax misses the equivalent of 2 shots (assured if combat isn't taking place at less than 1m away), its TTK jumps and becomes .360 seconds longer than the DC.
This is the point exactly, you're now balancing a immobile locked down DC against a mobile scat, which is impossible, this is why the TR MAXes have been mostly crap forever. Either you balance the DC unlocked and accept it'll be fubar when locked down, or you balance it locked and accept it'll suck unlocked. The whole concept was trash.

i hope they just make the specials equipable and usable by all, all three of the MAX concepts had something which looked like it could be jumpjets so maybe thats the route they're taking
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