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Old 2012-04-25, 11:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #16
Vash02
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Planes dont get suicide bombed via those methods because of defectors in the groups not because they are unwilling.

But just becuase they can do it doesent mean we should make it easier for any old tit with a gun or a bomb to do it aswell.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-04-25, 11:42 AM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Meh.
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Old 2012-04-25, 01:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
Yes, we'd be much safer if we didn't screen people who get onto airplanes.
Who said anything about not screening?
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Old 2012-04-25, 03:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Given the nature of the cluster F*** that is a TSA security check point. I am more worried about some one getting getting to the first stage check point and detonating. More targets in the unsecured line then any single aircraft.

The damned checkpoint is a better target then the target it's supposed to protect.

Thankfully the intel community is on their job and have been able to preemptively stop most cells from doing their deeds.

Also thankfully people are aware and any plans that get passed the authorities gets nailed by citizens who blow the whistle on anything sketchy.


They must do random searches in order to prevent legal backlash.. random means random. They don't have a choice who they search. You get that funny notice on your ticket and they have no choice but to follow orders.

Last edited by MBRicochet; 2012-04-25 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 2012-04-25, 07:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


http://news.yahoo.com/feds-crooked-t...opstories.html

I just found today. The TSA might have a purpose but frankly its their execution that is the issue.
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Old 2012-04-25, 08:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Originally Posted by Vash02 View Post
Planes dont get suicide bombed via those methods because of defectors in the groups not because they are unwilling.

But just becuase they can do it doesent mean we should make it easier for any old tit with a gun or a bomb to do it aswell.
Your unwillingness to get your ass probed before you get on an airplane will kill people. 10,000 lives a year would be saved if the speed limit was 45.

We all trade lives for convenience.


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
you can always choose to not fly.
I'd like to choose to use an airline that doesn't have ridiculous rules put on it because the masses are really, really, bad at statistics.

Terrorists change flying from ultra super mega hyper safe to just sorta super mega duper safe.

If you are scared of terrorists, you should be rendered catatonic at the thought of climbing into a car, bicycle, or god forbid, a motorcycle.


Nobody is saying there shouldn't be reasonable precautions. The metal detectors we had in the 90s were fine. Zip through, maybe get a wand. Done.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-25 at 08:14 PM.
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This is the last VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-04-25, 09:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Meh.
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Old 2012-04-25, 09:49 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Your unwillingness to get your ass probed before you get on an airplane will kill people. 10,000 lives a year would be saved if the speed limit was 45.

We all trade lives for convenience.
Getting pat down isnt that inconvenient, people are just insulted by the thought they look suspicous when really they have been randomly chosen.

Arse bombs haven't killed anyone yet, they arent a very good method because the human body is a very good shock absorber. The last one to try only managed to kill himself.
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Old 2012-04-25, 10:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
I would like airlines to have a hand in the security. TSA is a cost-saving measure though. If airlines had to do their own security flight costs would go up, but I expect bullshit would go way down.

People who want to fly safe would fly on airlines that had better security. Airlines would have personal incentive to take security seriously, and people would have a choice whether they got in the body scan line or the "sure, hop on!" line.

Logistically though it would create all sorts of chaos at the airport and you'd need to be scanned at the gate. It really isn't practical but it sure would be nice. In the absence of that I like that we err on the side of security.
Ideally security would be handled by the airport as part of its operations budget. But then you get different levels of airport security, so some regulation should be required. But the TSA itself is not doing the job, is costing way too much, and is trying to branch out into other non air travel areas. They are trying to make the 'Transportation' part of their name literal.
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Old 2012-04-25, 10:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
In the absence of that I like that we err on the side of security.
We already were. As I said. Before the TSA and the body scanners and pat downs, and including everyone that died as a result of 9/11, airline travel was already ridiculously safe.

Cars, bikes, and motorcycles are all far more dangerous even without the threat of terrorism. If you think airlines needed to be made safer than they already were, you do not understand statistics, since by any measure they are safe even with minimal security. People have an irrational fear of terrorism fueled by the headline grabbing nature of the extremely rare incidents, even though you're dozens of times more likely to die on your commute to work.


There have been 75 hijackings since 1950, and several hundred million or perhaps even billions of flights. This is a figure so statistically insignificant as to be irrelevant for any rational discussion. There have probably been more hijacking movies than actual hijackings. Yes, that security exists has prevented an unknowable number of them. But the security they adopted in response was the reasonable, fast, effective, and non intrusive precaution of having metal detectors and xray machines to keep guns off of aircraft. After 9/11 they also added the reasonable and nonintrusive(and in hindsight incredibly obvious) policy of a heavily reinforced cockpit door.


There is no terrorist threat. There never has been. More people have been killed by stepladders than by terrorists in this country.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-25 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 2012-04-25, 11:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


http://gawker.com/5905172/aggressive...to-miss-flight
http://gawker.com/tsa/
How far are we willing to allow civil liberties to be ignored and trampled on? The TSA are no better and no more effective than anything else prior to it.

Last edited by p0intman; 2012-04-25 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 2012-04-25, 11:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
We already were. As I said. Before the TSA and the body scanners and pat downs, and including everyone that died as a result of 9/11, airline travel was already ridiculously safe.

Cars, bikes, and motorcycles are all far more dangerous even without the threat of terrorism. If you think airlines needed to be made safer than they already were, you do not understand statistics, since by any measure they are safe even with minimal security. People have an irrational fear of terrorism fueled by the headline grabbing nature of the extremely rare incidents, even though you're dozens of times more likely to die on your commute to work.


I would, without worry, climb on to an airplane with absolutely NO security, because there is no risk to it. There have been 75 hijackings since 1950, and several hundred million or perhaps even billions of flights. This is a figure so statistically insignificant as to be irrelevant for any rational discussion. Yes, security prevented many hijackings, and they responded to those with the reasonable, fast, effective, and non intrusive precaution of having metal detectors and xray machines.

There is no terrorist threat.
Exactly.
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Old 2012-04-26, 08:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #28
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Originally Posted by MBRicochet View Post
Given the nature of the cluster F*** that is a TSA security check point. I am more worried about some one getting getting to the first stage check point and detonating. More targets in the unsecured line then any single aircraft.

The damned checkpoint is a better target then the target it's supposed to protect.

Thankfully the intel community is on their job and have been able to preemptively stop most cells from doing their deeds.
While I agree with most of what you are saying it does highlight a couple of issues.

First, has the TSA foiled any would be terrorist? I hear of people on the aircraft stopping the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, and a few other assorted clowns. But what about the TSA themselves?

Second the cluster that is the security checkpoint is indeed a soft target that has in most cases more people the the plan itself. The fact that the TSA has not recognized this and corrected it point to what a farce the TSA is currently.

Right now the TSA seems to more of a affirmative action program for dickheads.
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Old 2012-04-26, 09:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #29
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


Security for airlines is an important thing. As it is for schools, shopping malls, theme parks, office high-rises, downtown city centers, and so forth.

The execution of airline security is completely mismanaged and in need of a comprehensive overhaul. It needs to be there, but the current system is not working.
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Old 2012-04-26, 09:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #30
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Re: Our Lovely TSA strikes again


I think the US should take a few pointers from the Israelis on airline security.
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