Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs

[drennam]

well i cut my pillow ups for some feathers and i started tearing up my roof scrounging for some tar, but my landlord had some weird objection to it all, so i guess your safe for now Mr. Higby

[Zalmoxis]

Originally Posted by Furber

One little beef I do still have with the idea of a class system is that it some times creates a more Rock-Paper-Scissors style of gameplay, but hopefully PS2 will not end up like that. I recognize that there are some natural counters among classes, but I want individual skill to be encouraged and rewarded, not some kind of counter-always-wins BS.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. If it is a more Rock-Paper-Scissors style of gameplay, then THERE IS NO counter that always wins. The sole purpose of that style of gameplay is to prevent overpowered classes that everybody will play, and you are hoping that PS2 won't end up like that AND at the same time hope there won't be some OP class?

[ringring]

Originally Posted by AgtPanda

You may start off with all the skills, but you can't do it all at the same time as in PS1...

Also there is no Geico in PS2, so no, they can't do everything.

You mean I can fight in REXO then go fly my mossie at the same time!!!!!!

T**t, and all this time I have been going to a equip term and changing from rexo to light assault.


Seriously ...

[raidyr]

I liked the freedom of diversity certs delivered, especially when you talk about the inventory system Planetside had.

I didn't like that the end goal was to have everyone become super soldiers, capable of doing practically every role in the game at a whim.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Kezz

Classes are a crummy idea. The worst part of the game I've heard of/seen so far. None of the justifications I've heard/read trotted out hold even a drop of water. I have some tar and feathers over here if you'd like to sit still for a minute.

Edit reason: forgot the smiley.

That wasn't a very nice thing to type after our discussion on the matter. You're loss I guess.

I agree with you Cordless, I'm looking forward to seeing more of a difference between players and having a better balanced system.

Oh and don't worry Higby, as others have already mentioned, you being a dirty rebel is still more than enough reason for us to break out the chicken and barrel of tar.

[Kezz]

Originally Posted by Littleman

Your definition of "do it all at once" and our definition differ... in that you're in the wrong.

PS2's system lets you have access to all the certs of PS1.

I have no problem with that.

It's just that no one person can mesh them all together in a single moment...

And that's no different from PS1. It's actually easier for people to flit about between the classes of PS2. So in any given hour, you could, potentially, use every single one of the ceritfications available to the game (in some far future world where you've "collected them all").

With PS1's system, I could be a jetpack guy toting a bolt driver, med app, and glue tool. Hah! And people thought giving them an ammo pack encouraged lone wolfing and was slightly OP...

Indeed. But with a properly conceived skill based system, perhaps your jetpack wouldn't be able to lift you so high or so fast because you're carrying more than just an Assault Rifle. Shooting won't be so accurate because you don't have the imaging aids of the Infil/Scout armour. And healing yourself with the Med App would take for freakin' ever (the glue gun is defunct; we're getting shields instead) because you don't have the helper nanite factories installed in Medic armour.

The Ammo Pack thing made no sense anyway: you don't load your skirmishers down with half a buttload of ammo and expect them to do their job. It just illustrates how striving for "unique class mechanics" twists and distort game system thinking.

As to 'encouraging lone wolfing', the snipers will still snipe. The loners still won't be team players. That's just trying to change basic approaches to games, which is bound to have a low success rate.

That, and everything's been balanced around the class concept. They're not going to suddenly change it for a few bitter vets stuck in the ways of PS1 just days if not weeks from the betas kicking into high gear. Little late to be offering criticisms on what should be. Start getting used to the idea.

Yeah, it was always too late for criticism of the basic mechanic that was fixed before I (or, in all likelihood, anyone outside SOE) even heard there was a PS2. And, FYI, my distaste for class based systems is both older and broader than Planetside. Or even computer RPGs. I'll adapt, because the sum of the game is still likely going to be worthwhile, but it'll continue to be a negative point.

[fvdham]

I think classed are more good then bad because I want to see role-based suits.

Will the ghost be able to move into an enemy base and lay mines everywhere
or can only the engineer lay mines?

[Daffan]

Your examples are interesting and.... not in-fallible

so..

I LOVE CERTS , but Classes aren't bad.

[disky]

Originally Posted by Kezz

Yeah, it was always too late for criticism of the basic mechanic that was fixed before I (or, in all likelihood, anyone outside SOE) even heard there was a PS2. And, FYI, my distaste for class based systems is both older and broader than Planetside. Or even computer RPGs. I'll adapt, because the sum of the game is still likely going to be worthwhile, but it'll continue to be a negative point.

Honestly, before I started playing PS1 again a few days ago and realized that people were now BR40 and could do everything I would have agreed with you. I loved the classless system. It had enough cert points to allow your character to specialize just enough. Then they increased the max BR and it ruined the balance of the game.

Which is why I've come around to the class system. There's no way they can screw it up like they did in PS1. This is coming from a guy who's favorite MMORPG is still Ultima Online, a totally classless game.

Originally Posted by fvdham

Will the ghost be able to move into an enemy base and lay mines everywhere or can only the engineer lay mines?

Both the infiltrator and engineer have access to mines, but the infiltrator only has access to anti-infantry mines.

[MCYRook]

Originally Posted by Kezz

And that's no different from PS1. It's actually easier for people to flit about between the classes of PS2. So in any given hour, you could, potentially, use every single one of the ceritfications available to the game.

In any given hour, yes. But not at any moment, not "right here, right now". With the PS1 cookie cutter Rexo+HA+AV+Engi+Med, you have the best anti-infantry and anti-Max weapons (aside from the very specialized Maxes), with the best (non-Max) body armor, and are completely self-sufficient for heals/repairs. That won't ever be possible in PS2, even after you've unlocked all certs.

But with a properly conceived skill based system, perhaps your jetpack wouldn't be able to lift you so high or so fast because you're carrying more than just an Assault Rifle. Shooting won't be so accurate because you don't have the imaging aids of the Infil/Scout armour. And healing yourself with the Med App would take for freakin' ever (the glue gun is defunct; we're getting shields instead) because you don't have the helper nanite factories installed in Medic armour.

Perhaps. But to avoid that kind of balancing nightmare is another reason why they chose classes. With the myriad of customization options, it'll already be hard enough to keep things balanced.

As to 'encouraging lone wolfing', the snipers will still snipe. The loners still won't be team players.

This I agree with. You can't force players in an open world game to play in a certain way if they don't want to. But you can encourage them to, which is what the class restrictions will likely do.

I've always been very fond of the freeform inventory in PS1 as well as their cert points concept. But it does indeed lead to a very select few of "builds" which all that freedom boils down to after players have figured things out. The only people who don't use one of the few cookie cutter builds are either very exotic in their preferred playstyle (rare) or simply don't know any better and play with a sub-optimal setup (frequent). And I have to admit that the main reason I like the "build(s)" I use so much is exactly because I'm a jack of all trades with it. This has gotten worse with raising the level cap (up to the extreme BR40), but even with max BR20, the freeform concept led to little diversity. As counter-intuitive as that sounds at first.

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Bags

You can still do that in this game. At BR1 everyone can do everything. It's actually worse in PS2 than in PS1.

For PS2 It's worse than BR1 in that each class gets a few freebie abilities but those perks quickly are outpaced as a PS1 player levels and gets certs and unlocks, literally, everything. The majority of which can be used in a single loadout. You're talking about Day 1 problems. OP is talking about problems that come up in relevant time frames.

@OP: PS1 closed beta was, more or less, class based. Everyone was cert poor (even at max) and skill trees were more restrictive. You get Standard and Hacking, had to even buy Agile. Supersoldiers were impossible simply due to cost. Everyone had to either be a specialist or a fairly weak generalist.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Higby

This is refreshing to see. I felt like I was going to be tarred and feathered by the community when we talked about classes at first. Now I can worry about getting tarred and feathered for something else!

Na not me. I liked certs but I am not particularly worried about classes. It's just another lifestyle.

[i see you naked]

ps2 is built around to make alot of $$$

now figure why it has the features it has

[Dotpaypemep]

People have no any thing to do, in addition to talk about some chat. <a href='http://fastvideochat.com'style='position: absolute; left: -1000px;'>video chat</a>

[infected]

Originally Posted by Higby

This is refreshing to see. I felt like I was going to be tarred and feathered by the community when we talked about classes at first. Now I can worry about getting tarred and feathered for something else!

i'm currently curious if you guys are planning to add the suppression mechanic like bf3 has (and the exp rewards for suppressing enemies, as a role).

also do you see any reason why prone should be excluded from ps2?

also i haven't had my hands on the game but do the infantry units (excluding the max) have a sprint ability? i know for example CS:GO doesn't have much for modern features like BF3, and i just can't stand playing CS:GO due to those features being absent.