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View Poll Results: So, after readin the post, do you like my 'belief' on what would be a good 'balance'?
I've read the post & mostly Agree with the statements 21 53.85%
I've read the post, but dont really agree 10 25.64%
I've read the post, but not sure on where to stand 8 20.51%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2003-01-18, 03:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #1
DiosT
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My Sniper/AWP Thread =D


<font size=+1>Ok, BEFORE You flame me, read through this...</font>
<B>1) I do not want 1-shot kills in many circumstances, I suport the idea of FUN Gameplay, but remember some people have FUN in the challenge of being a good sniper---But you cant be a good sniper if it's impossible for a sniper to kill someone in under 3 shots... We need to balance 'victims' fun with 'snipers' fun!
2) AWP of CS was 1-shot 1 Kill, Ill get into it later, but remember AWP had a 2 second 'refire' time, the Bolt driver is 1-shot before it has to be reloaded by some other means, it's refire rate is listed as "NA" so is likely to be slower then "Slow/Very Slow" refire rate weapons, likely 5-10 seconds</b>

<HR width=80% color=#ff0000>
<font size=+1><B>Counter-Strike's AWP, And High-Powered Rifle's in detail</b>(Technical)</font>

Peolpe hate the AWP, but dont realize a key point...

<font size=+1>Counter-Strike specifically says it seeks REALISM...</font>

The AWP has a Muzzle Velocity of 3000 ft/sec, by comparison to other rifles this is roughly the same, a bit faster then normal though... The key is the fact the sniper rifle's "slug" is <I>3-5 times larger then a STANDARD bullet</i>, I'm not talking the ENTIRE bullet casing, just the part that SHOOTS, it's 3-5 times larger then a rifle's Slug!


Now for some more realism...

<B><font size=+1>Do you think you'd live getting hit by a Jeep going 80 Miles an hour?</font> Not likely, you'd be splattered across the road

Now immagine getting hit by a Slug traveling 2,045MPH</b>, yes thats a 4 digit number OVER 2,000, MILES PER HOUR... Technically Yes, there is friction & air resistance that slow it, but the raw power behind the slug is seen by this

<U>Math to prove it:</u>
3000ft/sec velocity (note that we have sniper rifles today that have muzzle velocities of 4250 fet/sec, so this is rather 'weak' compared to the top-end)
<B>3,000*60*60 = 10,800,000 feet/hour</b>
Explination: fps*60 seconds * 60 minutes = feet per hour
<B>10,800,000/5280 = 2045.45...</b>
Explination: Feet per hour/5280 feet = Miles per hour

Ok, so your Head is hit by something traveling the speed of sound... Isnt it a bit rediculous to think that a very light helmet(such as on armors under heavy armor types--Agile/infil/Light), would be able to stop this projectile from going through one head, and out the other? Comon.. <B>Your face would be splattered across the next 5 miles</B>, and it'd only take it 10 seconds to do that! Ok, this is a game, it's supposed to be fun--yet real... And futuristic... so we need a 'balance' that doesnt make snipers -useless-, but does provide some good benefits...

<B>LIGHT armor</b>--Someone in Light armor hit by Bolt driver dies, Note that LIGHT armor is the default starting armor you get for free...
<B>AGILE armor</b>--Someone in Medium(Agile) armor, in the head, would die instantly, Medium armor in some shoots seems to not have helments(if im readin the file names correctly), and those that do have 1/4 or 1/8th inch thick helemts--very light..
<b>HEAVY armor</b>--Someone in Heavy armor would be fairly resistant to such shots, Being in the full body armor with futuristic metals and such COMBINED with thickness of this armor, would be able to at least deflect the bullet moreso then let it pass through... so 3 direct head shots, or ~6 shots to the body is reasonable isnt it?
<B>MAX Exo-Suits</b>--Basically immune, everyone even snipers agree MAX's are like walkign tanks...
<B>Vehicles</b>--Not a chance ;-P

It cant be denied that in the REAL world, the PURPOSE of a REALISTIC sniper, is 1-shot, 1 kill... But It can be agreed that this is a game, a fantasy world, and everyone wants to have fun...

By comparison, teh AWP in Counter-Strike was like the Bolt Driver is to the LIGHT body armor of Planetside... basically if someone mod'ed CS to be like planetside, there'd be 3 stronger body armors to choose from, and you START in kevlar, can buy the next armor for $300, and next for 300-400 more, and so on... so it isnt hard to AVOID these 1-shot kills.. Counter-strike is real based on our times, I think the idea's I presented here are reasonable for the Planetside World

<hr width=90% color=#ff0000>

So In Summary:

<B>LIGHT/STANDARD armor</b>--1-shot kills(this is how PS is now)
<B>AGILE armor</b>--2 body shots(this is how it is now), or 1 head shot
<b>HEAVY armor</b>--2 direct head shots, or ~5-6 shots to the body is reasonable isnt it?
<B>MAX Exo-Suits</b>--6 head shots, 12 body shots--these are basically reduiculous numbers, a squad (note: 10 people) of snipers could possibly be able to take 1 MAX out if they ALL aimed at the exact same one, but 4MAX vs. 10sniper, MAX's will OWN the 10 snipers--MAX's can travel at ~60-80kph, so once they find the snipers it's easy to run up and unload automatic weapons fire
<B>Vehicles</b>--60-90 shots ? heh... basiclly impossible to do, well, maybe 30 snipers firing 2-3 shots each into a tank, but thats 30 vs. 1-2 =p

I just wanted to give people a taste of 'realism'...

I guess my end point is, I dont think Agile(medium) armor should be able to resist a head shot from a LARGE projectile traveling 1,500-2,000 MPH... and heavies should be a bit more resistant, but still suseptable...
And if no Head-shot system goes in, then I hope they decrease the cone of fire on the Bolt-driver so they are more likely to simply hit at long range, since that'd be the only saving grace for a sniper...

I personally am going to wait until I play the game before I do any complaining on snipers being too powerful, but still gonna complain about people who havn't played PS thinking snipers are to powerful and calling for nerfing for something that's not even out of internal Beta yet
 
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Old 2003-01-18, 03:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
drsomewhere
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You pretty much said it all
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Old 2003-01-18, 03:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
Sputty
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There is no region specific damage. Head shots don't exist. Those stats aren't for release, they may tweak them but from what we know you're right in the stats. But reducing cone of fire would make no sense and you're basing your "argument"(couldn't think of better word) of realism. It's bigger and bulkier than most guns in PS so why would it's cone be smaller?

Last edited by Sputty; 2003-01-18 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 2003-01-18, 03:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
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Also wanted to add, a Rifle firing a 20-gram projectile @ 4500 Feet per second, would penetrate 40mm (like ~1 1/2 inches) of High-Quality STEEL, that's why I think such a small helmet on the agile armor wouldnt provide such a strong resistance to the Bolt-Driver (which would also increase in power w/time to match the armors it faces)
 
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Old 2003-01-18, 03:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
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You ahve no disagree on your poll...lol...But you have sort of agree, Agree, and unsure...heh..
Also, this is the future, they aren't using steel I don't think.It's impossible to compare current stats to a future set games especially when they're so far into it.
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Yeah i know they are leaning against the implementing of head shots, but, they do need to address the fact that snipers need to be able to provide a role, and sniping pilost before they get in their vehicles at their home base as an onl option for 1-shot kills isnt 'fun' for snipers...


I'd think 1-shot kills for Infil or Light(standard) armor is good...

2 shtos for Medium(agile), or maybe add in a server-side variable to check for 1-shot kills in this situation (roll a double, if it's under .25 then the other guy takes X damage(kills an agile from full health)).. just an idea...

4-5 shots for Heavy armor

8-10 shots for a MAX


that also an option, mix between head shots & body shots from my origional post
 
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
DiosT
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well, cant really say my numbers are fubared, math is math, and i checked my numbesr 3 times =p that bullet will travel at 2,000 mph minus air resistance/friction =p

and the hits-per-kill being too strong is basiclly what people complain over =p


the poitn of the poll is to see if people agree with my ideas on hits-per kill, or if they think my idea's are too strong =p
 
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
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AHHHH!! too many "=p"s
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
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actually, the AWP was originally designed for shooting through soft skinned armoured vehicles (APC's, jeeps etc) to hit the driver. it was discovered that because of the size of the round and the power behind it, it stayed accurate over long distances, and was suited for long range sniping (it recorded the longest confirmed snipe (a head shot) by special forces during the first iraq war)

so really, its quite plausible that you could fuck up a buggy and waste a light / medium in one shot. a heavy would take a beating, and IMO a MAX would be knocked back if not take damage. a TR with its little homo spikes in the ground wouldnt budge an inch tho :P
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Guess you didnt listen. Firstly, it's the future. Also, it's a game. DiosT even said one hit kills for most guys is stupid. As I've said before comparing to the present to the future is stupid and comparing a game to real life is worse.
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Originally posted by Sputty
Also, this is the future, they aren't using steel I don't think.

one must assume sniper technology would keep pace with armour technology
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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thanks for the historical backgruond jester =) I wasn't aware of it's history, just it's statistics =p

Thinkin about it it's almsot strong enough to be an anti-(light)Tank Rifle, almost penetrates 2 inches of steel =p


Like to see people on CS forums say that an anti-tank file that hits a human in kevlar and 1-shot kills em is unrealistic/unfair ;-P
 
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
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the worst bit is a toe shot
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
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OH MY TOES *falls over dead*
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Old 2003-01-18, 04:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
DiosT
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well depends, most toe-shost actualyl go through the entire foot and sould splatter your entire foot across the ground for the next few hundred feet, most 'toe' shots go through the front of the foot and out the back, basicly forcing you to limp..

basicly Monty Python and the Holy Grail..
"it's only a flash wound" (as he's missing an arm--which really would disable him)

Be happy snipers cant turn people into newts...
 
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