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View Poll Results: Should mines be kept?
Yes, until log off, if not indefinitely 59 47.97%
Yes, but only for a limited time like ten or twenty minutes 22 17.89%
No, they should poof immediately, or in a very short time. 47 38.21%
Optional: Getting into a vehicle should be the same as switching classes for the purposes of mines 2 1.63%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-04-07, 10:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
Ale
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Mines are static defenses placed by direct player action, and if they were left until a player action caused their destruction, I feel it adds depth to the world.

Keeping your max number of mines up, in useful locations, takes a dedicated effort... meaning players who intend to do it will be spending an awful lot of time in engy gear regardless. Forcing them to redo it should the need arise to swap out kits for a minute, to take a tower or something, seems harsh.

C4, spawn beacon type devices, router pads, any type of motion sensor... basically everything other than mines, need to disappear instantly on kitswitch or death, however.
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
Blackwolf
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Ale View Post
Mines are static defenses placed by direct player action, and if they were left until a player action caused their destruction, I feel it adds depth to the world.

Keeping your max number of mines up, in useful locations, takes a dedicated effort... meaning players who intend to do it will be spending an awful lot of time in engy gear regardless. Forcing them to redo it should the need arise to swap out kits for a minute, to take a tower or something, seems harsh.

C4, spawn beacon type devices, router pads, any type of motion sensor... basically everything other than mines, need to disappear instantly on kitswitch or death, however.
I disagree with the motion sensor. I think that and MANA turrets are both just as viable as static base defenses as mines are.
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
Skitrel
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


If mines eat resources they should stay, simple as that.

If not, I think they should disappear, though I also think deployable cover should stay, so I'm a little torn. There should be consistency, one thing shouldn't stay while the other disappears, that's just frustrating. Tough one.
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
Blackwolf
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Skitrel View Post
If mines eat resources they should stay, simple as that.

If not, I think they should disappear, though I also think deployable cover should stay, so I'm a little torn. There should be consistency, one thing shouldn't stay while the other disappears, that's just frustrating. Tough one.
Not at all.

If you feel deployable cover should stay, and feel the need for consistency, then you should feel that mines should stay.
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:34 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
Ale
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Blackwolf View Post
I disagree with the motion sensor. I think that and MANA turrets are both just as viable as static base defenses as mines are.
I agree. The difference is that there is no need for a single engineer to create a field of either and therefore should have one of each, to be used anew, on each life.

I also agree with the part in red, taken out of context. Passive 2d spotting is a pet peeve. I'm hoping, if implemented at all, Motion Sensors are more like BC2 motion balls, or in BF3, the one per life T.U.G.S. that you have to pick up and move. Rather than planetsides ever present array of sensors, tucked into door cracks, into ceilings, through floors and under crates no less... but I digress.

This is all personal preference, your point about those being the same kind of static, player placed, defense is 100% valid.
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Old 2012-04-07, 11:41 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
Warborn
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Greatly reduces the value of dedicated engineers if players can simply switch classes and deploy their own mines, turrets, or whatever else. Switching classes should immediately result on the despawning of all your deployables.
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Old 2012-04-08, 12:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #22
Graywolves
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


I don't think they should go away just because someone changed class. Limiting the amount of objects that can be deployed should be enough.


With vehicles, EMPs, jammers, normal weapons, and bodies going everywhere; There's no real need to regulate the deployables like this. If they switch classes they can't repair anything or deploy anymore. I think that's enough.
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Old 2012-04-08, 01:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #23
Grognard
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by CutterJohn View Post
Topic came up in the AGN regarding mines, and specifically if they should be kept around if you switch to a different class.

In my opinion, no they shouldn't. Mines are something engineers do, being able to lay mines is one of the points of being one. You don't get to stay cloaked if you switch to another class as a cloaker, and you don't get to keep your med app if you switch from a medic. Personally, I feel it would lead to an absolute ton of mine spam.

What are your thoughts?
I think mines layed previously, then class switched, seems more like a legacy item... So to me continuing to keep cloaked, or keep med applicator, are current items to produce more like effects, concurrent with the new class...

So perhaps, if previous legacy mines are destroyed, then more accurately, legacy revives and heals should terminate, LOL. A cloakers shield would not have a legacy effect to carry over, so no problem.
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Old 2012-04-08, 01:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #24
Yutty
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


i wouldn't mind if they stayed somewhere from 2-5 minutes after a person switches classes. Definitely against them staying permanently after switching classes
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #25
Mechzz
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


The poll questions do not cover all choices, so I wonder if that is driving the split in the answers. "Indefinite" should be different choice than "until log off" as they have very different impacts on gameplay.

Personal preference is for mines to stay until a change of continent or log off. "Indefinitely" is just a bit too like RL imo.

I don't see what is wrong with the PS1 mode of deployment for mines and other engy stuff. They remain in existence long enough that it can be meaningful to a base defence and avoid the need to lay mines etc. under direct fire too often. But numbers are limited so you can't just spam a 30-deep layer of mines round the entire perimeter of a base. And I suppose there are players who would be OCD enough to do that if they could

Passive defences might not be needed for hours after laying, depending on the flow of battle and being forced to stick as an engy simply to keep a few mines and turrets alive is too high a price to pay.

Limiting the number of mines, etc. able to deployed will keep the mine-spam under control and mines are not the powerful weapons they can be in small-map games due to the lower probability of any given point having a tank roll over it. The new open base design will also lessen the impact of any given mine on a battle. In particular, I can't imagine the capture points in PS2 will be directly capturable from a tank

An engy who can pick the choke points well and pays resources for a few mines deserves to get the payback.
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Old 2012-04-08, 02:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #26
Bags
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


If miens stayed foever people would switch to enginee,r lay them, then play whatever.
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Old 2012-04-08, 03:15 AM   [Ignore Me] #27
Captain1nsaneo
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Does no one else have fond memories of randomly finding mines left over from a fight that happened several days ago? We had a member who was legendary for finding lone mines in the middle of no where. I don't understand your fear about this.
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Old 2012-04-08, 04:37 AM   [Ignore Me] #28
CutterJohn
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Originally Posted by Mechzz View Post
I don't see what is wrong with the PS1 mode of deployment for mines and other engy stuff.
The fact that everyone will have access to them. Its not so much of a big deal for everything else, since you can only do one thing at a time. If you're in a tank, that means you're not in aircav or a lib.


Passive defences might not be needed for hours after laying, depending on the flow of battle and being forced to stick as an engy simply to keep a few mines and turrets alive is too high a price to pay.
Then don't be an engy if you feel its too high of a price. Also, don't set up your mines hours beforehand.


I guess what I'm not getting is why people feel that being able to set up mines in a base many minutes before an attack on a base is necessary. Set them up around the lines while you're under attack. Being an engy should not be seen as a 'chore'. If it is, something is wrong. But I don't think it will be. You'll be setting up your mines and turrets, repairing them, using your AV weapon to attack vehicles(or your turrets), repairing other vehicles or MAXs around.

If thats not what you want to do, play another class and forget about mines, imo. Especially since then mines can be made more powerful/easier to set up, for those that do want to do it.

Last edited by CutterJohn; 2012-04-08 at 04:38 AM.
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Old 2012-04-08, 04:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #29
Coreldan
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Hmmh, personally I'd like to see them persist. It's not directly comparable to keeping and being able to use your med applicator as an other class IMO.

CE is a part of defense and I don't somehow like the idea that to have CE, the engineer is stuck being engineer forever.

Naturally a max amount of mines like in PS as well as perhaps a... few hour timer before they vanish if it's technically required? I know in PS fights can take all day sometimes, so two hours can be a short time, but that's more like "IF" it's required to keep server performance up, otherwise we might have thousands of mines around that wont ever see an enemy soldier
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This is the last VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-04-08, 05:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #30
Malorn
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Re: Mines staying active when switching class


Thinking back to PS1 one of my biggest complaints was driving around on a continent that is essentially empty and dying to some random mines from an AMS that may have happened to have been planted there days earlier and the person who planted it wasn't even online or on the continent anymore.

And because of this one of my most beloved changes in PS1 was the 15 minute logout timer on CE. Logout for 15 minutes and it all goes poof. Random mine deaths decreased significantly after that change.

In any case I want to see that 15 minute logout timer return.

I like the thought of people being able to switch at least in the short term and not lose their CE, but also want to avoid seeing tons of CE spam because its easy to switch.

Few thoughts came to mind here.

1) CE costing resources - if planting mines cost you resources then sure, no reason it shouldn't stick around at least for the duration of your play.

2) Much lower CE limit - PS1's CE limit was quite high, could have a much lower limit to reduce spam while still giving people flexibility

3) Could tie CE limit with the Engineer class, so your limit is higher if you stay engineer, but if you witch out your limit is reduced (and thus all but the most recent mines disappear). So full time engineers can keep more stuff out than part-time engineers.

4) Upkeep costs on CE. Sort of like a one time resource cost a recurring resource cost to maintain the minefield. Not too sure I like this one but putting it down since I'm just brainstorming here. Another thought with this could be that the upkeep on CE only applies for non-engineers. So if you plant some CE and then switch out, you have upkeep costs to maintain the CE, whereas if you stayed engineer you would not have those costs. That way it's a tradeoff that rewards the full-time engineers.

5) Flat timers for all CE. I like this one the most. Needs to be worked in with the limit ideas I think in order for it to work out so people don't just hop into engineer for a few minutes to lay a minefield and then go back to their other classes.
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