MBT K/D ratios - Page 3

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-01, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Reasons why HA rockets (of any kind) are superior than the Prowler against Magriders:

1. It's easier to hide.
2. It's possible to make a surprise attack.
3. It's possible to dodge incoming fire.

Not to mention the AV lock ons negate the Magrider's strafe/dodge advantage.

Rockit · 2013-02-01, 01:15 PM

Go watch the TE stream sometime. See how they do it, they show how vehicles versus annihilator is useless.

Figment · 2013-02-01, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Higby

That data was MBT killing shots against other MBTs in real combat. It isn't in a vacuum of purely tank vs tank encounters, it's in real battles involving AV infantry, aircraft, etc., that's why it's not 1:1. All things being equal (which they rarely are, and we do consider that) those additional factors should be equally affecting each empire, since they all have aircraft, AV infantry, etc. However, we do see some interesting statistics external to MBT vs MBT fights, for instance, Magriders are killed by AV infantry about twice as much as Prowlers and Vanguards are (those get killed by Magriders, primarily). TR and NC AV weapons aren't juiced compared to VS, this is purely a factor of there being a lot more Magriders and the TR and NC tanks not being able to match them (both in numbers as well as capability) so they have to rely more on AV infantry. AV Infantry being used to effectively counter tanks isn't a bad thing in general, but when it's as skewed as it is right now it is.

Interesting that you'd mention the AV increase, which is logical. Do you see an accuracy difference between AV weapons too?

As in, any way to see how much more the Magriders are missed by comparing VS and TR/NC AV accuracy results? (That includes rockets and AP shells really).

Tatwi · 2013-02-01, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Not to mention the AV lock ons negate the Magrider's strafe/dodge advantage.

That's a good point, especially with regards to the Prowler, which has to land two shots to get roughly the same damage as other tanks.

The biggest advantage of HA over NC/TR tanks though is mobility. The ability to get behind or beside the Magrider before taking shots is, I would imagine, more of a factor than lock-ons alone. Lock-ons are great when they are timed properly and hit the tank in the rear, but that's also all about positioning and mobility of the shooter.

Rockit · 2013-02-01, 01:26 PM

Well you see the fundamental issue with this game is sheer numbers. Nothing else matters and throws off the balance. How can you balance stats across the game when the stats get so focused on "balancing" the numbers to neuter the zerg? That leaves the non-zerg at a distinct disadvantage and further perpetuates the never ending cycle. Cont pops are just too high. Lower that and lower the imbalance potential.

Figment · 2013-02-01, 01:28 PM

Maneuvrability would have been less of an issue with uniform armour distribution and a dedicated driver. As is though, a strafing tank destroyer has the maneuvring advantage.

Especially with the vectorial attack thing where a hit from a rear vector on a turret's side or front results in equal damage as a hit in the actual rear of the tank, while it doesn't when it's facing forward. Turret and hull should have their own hitboxes really if you're going with armour differences.

As Rockit says though, pop imbalances create bigger power distances through leverage. Once a pop imbalance occurs, it's going to be very hard to rectify the power balance. You see this in game in the steamroll effect where defense cannot built up a force to stall the larger tank group coming in.

Kerrec · 2013-02-01, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rockit

Well you see the fundamental issue with this game is sheer numbers. Nothing else matters and throws off the balance. How can you balance stats across the game when the stats get so focused on "balancing" the numbers to neuter the zerg? That leaves the non-zerg at a distinct disadvantage and further perpetuates the never ending cycle. Cont pops are just too high. Lower that and lower the imbalance potential.

This, 100%. Based on my experience on Jaeger!

That being said, the next patch will shift population bonus from worldwide to continent. Also the dynamic player XP change. And getting XP for damaging vehicles on top of all that.

Hopefully the overall effect is it will entice the population to go play on continents where their faction is at a disadvantage to gain the population xp bonus, a bigger pool of full xp targets to kill, and a bigger pool of vehicles to damage/kill for XP.

Putting the carrot in the right place may be a good start.

Rockit · 2013-02-01, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

As Rockit says though, pop imbalances create bigger power distances through leverage. Once a pop imbalance occurs, it's going to be very hard to rectify the power balance. You see this in game in the steamroll effect where defense cannot built up a force to stall the larger tank group coming in.

It's not really pop imbalance but an outfit so focused on 1 dimensional game play they get damn good at it. What is SOE to do? Penalize them for figuring out a great gamestyle but to slow that down and penalize the smaller groups for utilizing similar tactics? Well no, I think spread that pop out and balance becomes easier. But you cannot do that as long as you allow so much of the same on the same cont. Big outfits need to be spreadout.

Rothnang · 2013-02-01, 02:02 PM

Statistics taken from all players should only ever be used to adjust the ease of use of a unit, never to adjust its hard numbers, because the average does not in any way represent what top players can do with the unit.

raw · 2013-02-01, 03:20 PM

This whole MBT is OP talk is so ridiculous, I wouldn't mind Hamma instabanning people that open up a topic about it in the future.
Realtalk: No singular vehicle/weapon/etc. in PS2 is OP. It can be slightly better but due to the fundamental structure of the game (and the amount of players) nothing can ever be OP unless SOE screws up very very hard.

Even worse are the armchair statisticans here and on the main forums evaluating incomplete (to them) data with basic middle-school maths. Stop doing that, you are wrong every. single. time.

Edit: Higby, el grande statistics page ETA?