Health/Shield/Jetpack Mechanics from GDC Videos - Page 3

Knocky · 2012-03-19, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

In the new system, Regarding shields, you simply need to lay low for a moment. No other user is required, not even to cover you for X amount of time.

In the old system, you needed to be motionless, be healed by another, and covered by others for X amount of time.

One enables the individual player, the other relies on teamwork of the group.

And why would the enemy just sit passively and allow you to stand around and while your shields recover?

This does NOT eliminate teamwork, quiet the opposite.

Squad 1 moves forward, gives and takes fire.

Squad 2 leapfrogs, and continues the assault.

Squad 1 reps and rez.

Squad 1 leapfrogs again while Squad 2 recovers.

Yes this is just a simplistic example. But a valid one.

NewSith · 2012-03-19, 10:45 AM

We definitely need a team to entirely dissect the GDC footage...

Nice finds...

Skitrel · 2012-03-19, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Knocky

And why would the enemy just sit passively and allow you to stand around and while your shields recover?

This does NOT eliminate teamwork, quiet the opposite.

Squad 1 moves forward, gives and takes fire.

Squad 2 leapfrogs, and continues the assault.

Squad 1 reps and rez.

Squad 1 leapfrogs again while Squad 2 recovers.

Yes this is just a simplistic example. But a valid one.

Exactly, that's not even counting the old halo natural occurrence of rolling shield damage, with people naturally spreading the damage everyone takes because people with full shields automatically take aggressive stances, moving forwards knowing they can take fire while people with low shields move backwards, effectively the cause of this is a rolling effect of movement that applies damaging liberally across multiple players on a side working in tandem, best seen in areas like the clusterfuck elevator on Sword Base. This effect is the number 1 primary reason shields mean good things for teamwork, a group that manages themselves well and communicates will do exceptional, concentrating fire on targets is necessary in order to drop them as opposed to otherwise being forced into combat with fresher troops.

How this effect will play out in PS2 remains to be seen, there'll be a hell of a lot more guns and firepower bearing down, so at times such coordination will be futile regardless, it is however very much a part of the play that shields bring. What it will likely do is increase the duration of the massive fights and they will remain a strategically won affair while making the small scale scuffles very combat skill based as smaller battles will allow for more manoeuvring.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-19, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Erendil

From 1:25 of GDC vid 3, I believe a 3-shell volley was fired by the Prowler on screen at Higby's tank (3-shot volley is a Prowler sidegrade). Looks like he scored one hit and one near miss, for a total of 5 bars (25%) of Higby's armour. So if this is correct, each prowler shell does 3 bars of armour to a Vannie, or 8 hits to kill. In PS1 it takes 15 100mm shells to kill an unshielded/base armour Vannie.

I watched that spot several times and I couldn't see a clear indication of a 3 shot volley, but did notice at least two distinct hits which knocked 5 bars out in very quick succession. Could be the animations for the tank shots (which were clearly not finished) made the triple shot difficult to see. Or maybe it was just two shots since the prowler does have a high rate of fire.

Where did you learn that the Prowler has a 3-shot volley sidegrade? Is that the TR version of the Vanguard's shield or just a cannon upgrade?

Seems ironic that the Prowler ends up being the Jackhammer of tanks too.

Also more interestingly was that Higby's tank regenerated immediately after taking damage. I also saw it reloading its ammo slowly also. The radius of that Sunderer must be quite high for its' ammo & repair functionality. I couldn't see the sunderer at all on the minimap so I couldn't clearly see just how close it was to him.

Bags · 2012-03-20, 12:40 AM

He said there was a cert you could take for a very slow auto regen on your tank.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-20, 01:09 AM

Right, but look closely at the ammo during the tank battle while the health on the tank is regenerating - you can see the ammo count increases slowly. At around 1:48 you can see there was a sunderer in the area that wasn't showing up on the minimap that was also resupplying the tank's ammo, from a fair distance away. But the ammo regenerates throughout the tank battle in various places.

I suspect that in this video there was a sunderer behind Higby's tank. I think it was the one that he drove past in the beginning. It tailed him, healing his tank and restoring ammo off-screen so he could show off the gameplay but not putting his tank at risk. They staged that tank convoy & battle for the demo. Makes sense to have a sunderer behind his tank off-camera keeping it healthy and ensuring he didn't die. It also allows the prowlers to not hold back and put on a good show.

Coreldan · 2012-03-20, 01:39 AM

Would figure though that the sundy would have to be stationary/deployed before it could repair/resupply, but go figure.

Bags · 2012-03-20, 02:09 AM

Could have been for the demo again, but i wouldn't be surprised if tha twas the case

**Malorn** · 2012-03-20, 02:13 AM

For a live gaming session the demo did go very well. They gave broadcasts with phase instructions to people and clearly had rehearsed how it would go. Nicely done and really awesome to see them sit there and show off the game like that in real-time and not just show us some stitched-together trailer. Shows a lot of confidence in the game. And gives viewers a lot of confidence in it as well. It converted a few people I work with to be instant Planetside 2 fans, when before they were unimpressed by the trailer.

Even if they did tricks like that to make it go smoother its still interesting to see mechanics like the sunderer's lodestar-ish repair & rearm.

ThGlump · 2012-03-20, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Right, but look closely at the ammo during the tank battle while the health on the tank is regenerating - you can see the ammo count increases slowly. At around 1:48 you can see there was a sunderer in the area that wasn't showing up on the minimap that was also resupplying the tank's ammo, from a fair distance away. But the ammo regenerates throughout the tank battle in various places.

I suspect that in this video there was a sunderer behind Higby's tank. I think it was the one that he drove past in the beginning. It tailed him, healing his tank and restoring ammo off-screen so he could show off the gameplay but not putting his tank at risk. They staged that tank convoy & battle for the demo. Makes sense to have a sunderer behind his tank off-camera keeping it healthy and ensuring he didn't die. It also allows the prowlers to not hold back and put on a good show.

That sunderer at the base in on minimap just very badly visible in that bright blue (first thing they should change).
Ammo was regenerating only when sunderer was close to higby, thought it was when sunderer was on move.
Sunderer entering mininmap from behind at 0:48, and at 0:55+ you can see him in higbys view, and then keeping near him till the end, getting ahead when higby pick squad and waiting for him at the base.

Knocky · 2012-03-20, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I suspect that in this video there was a sunderer behind Higby's tank. I think it was the one that he drove past in the beginning. It tailed him, healing his tank and restoring ammo off-screen so he could show off the gameplay but not putting his tank at risk. They staged that tank convoy & battle for the demo. Makes sense to have a sunderer behind his tank off-camera keeping it healthy and ensuring he didn't die. It also allows the prowlers to not hold back and put on a good show.

If a Sundie can repair and rearm while moving with the tanks.....that would be a tad over the top I think.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-20, 02:12 PM

Getting off topic, but I disagree. I think having a sunderer move with tanks creates more combined-arms potential. Clearly the sunderer becomes a high priority target.

Got the sunderer + tanks + a few AA configured lightnings protecting them. Seems like a nice solid ground force to push forward with.

It all depends on the rate at which the sunderer repairs. They could make it faster or with higher range if the sunderer is stationary or does some sort of deployment mechanic. Doesn't mean they can't heal/repair on the move. If it's too much they can tone down the repair rate.

Good questions for the AMAA this week...

MrBloodworth · 2012-03-20, 03:28 PM

Nothing should auto anything in this game.

Its like people are allergic to other players or something.

.

**Malorn** · 2012-03-20, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Nothing should auto anything in this game.

Its like people are allergic to other players or something.

.

Whether an engineer is behind the tank or driving next to it in a sunderer, it's still teamwork.

If it is the loss of teamwork you are concerned about the Sunderer isn't reducing teamwork by its repair benefit. All they did was combine it with the lodestar to act as vehicle support in addition to a transport. If anything the sunderer improves teamwork. It allows one transport to carry infantry so they can keep up with tanks, as well as supporting those tanks. So it encourages tanks to protect the sunderers and sunderers to stay near the tanks. Teamwork at its finest and a great example of the 1+1=3 design philosophy.

MrBloodworth · 2012-03-21, 08:49 AM

The loadstar did not auto refill your ammo, it simply acted as a terminal.

Auto repair while stationary, and with in a tight range ( like the loadstar ) is fine. Its the moving/ammo/repair I take issue with.

I also really personally dislike that the Sundy seems to be able to do everything. I like the idea of having to make the tactical choice to filed various equipment.

This should really be another Vehicle, attaching all that, and possible amphibious ability as well, on a breach Vehicle seems silly.