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Old 2012-03-14, 01:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
Kipper
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by EVILPIG View Post
It's all in the checks and balances.
Balance exactly - where is the fun-factor in playing as a gal pilot if you know that someone can magic your vehicle away and there's NOTHING you can do about it?

I'm not saying it should be easy to keep a galaxy up and spawning, but it should be possible if you can keep it defended.

In BF2142/BF2 when artillery/orbital was coming down in your area, you had an audible warning a few seconds before which meant - find cover or gtf out of there. People did, and if you made it - great, if you didn't, unlucky.

If OS comes with such a warning, it might be possible for infantry and fast vehicles to escape, but still, one would assume a galaxy would not have time to undeploy, take off, and begone by the time the strike happened - being that they're huge and slow.

Back on the original topic - perhaps not cost 'earnable' resources to spawn as Foresaken One has a point - it would nerf support classes who'd be spending their earnings to allow you to spawn. But more in the way of, it has a pool of nanites which needs to be refreshed by visiting a friendly facility with it or having them brought to it by other means.

Or alternatively - it could be earnable resources which would be part of the cost of equipping the mobile spawn point onto the galaxy (assuming its a module) but you get paid every time someone uses them to spawn, so you're rewarded with 90% of your resources back if you keep the gal alive long enough to exhaust its supply of nanites (at which point you can go and refresh/rebuy the module).
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Old 2012-03-14, 01:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
Balance exactly - where is the fun-factor in playing as a gal pilot if you know that someone can magic your vehicle away and there's NOTHING you can do about it?

I'm not saying it should be easy to keep a galaxy up and spawning, but it should be possible if you can keep it defended.

In BF2142/BF2 when artillery/orbital was coming down in your area, you had an audible warning a few seconds before which meant - find cover or gtf out of there. People did, and if you made it - great, if you didn't, unlucky.

If OS comes with such a warning, it might be possible for infantry and fast vehicles to escape, but still, one would assume a galaxy would not have time to undeploy, take off, and begone by the time the strike happened - being that they're huge and slow.

Back on the original topic - perhaps not cost 'earnable' resources to spawn as Foresaken One has a point - it would nerf support classes who'd be spending their earnings to allow you to spawn. But more in the way of, it has a pool of nanites which needs to be refreshed by visiting a friendly facility with it or having them brought to it by other means.

Or alternatively - it could be earnable resources which would be part of the cost of equipping the mobile spawn point onto the galaxy (assuming its a module) but you get paid every time someone uses them to spawn, so you're rewarded with 90% of your resources back if you keep the gal alive long enough to exhaust its supply of nanites (at which point you can go and refresh/rebuy the module).
You point just supports checks and balances. I actually would prefer no OS in PS2. I would imagine Galaxies, or any mobile spawn for the enemy, will be their primary purpose. Will Os's be costly? Should be. Will a Galaxy be able to escape one? Don't know, but we'll have to see how costly an OS is. Your Gal will likely to be free to pull and no where near as limited or costly as an OS.
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Old 2012-03-14, 02:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by Kipper View Post
It has been said that the Galaxy will have capable defenses when its deployed, provided someone is there to actually man them.

Being a mobile base - and therefore a strategically important target for counter-attackers wanting to relieve the pressure on their fixed base coming from people spawning, you would expect it to come under all kinds of attack from whatever people can get their hands on.

If it has people and guns, and an engineer manning it - then it will hold itself against most vehicles and it will take a co-ordinated assault to take it out (in which the one empire risks losing the nearby base while it concentrates on taking down the gal-spawn, but the other empire risks losing its gal-spawn if it doesnt leave enough people back to keep it alive - so it will be about allocation of resources)

This is the part that is extremely short sighted on the dev teams about using the gal instead of the AMS as a spawn point. It will not matter in the long run Aircav will wreck the thing almost as soon as it lands (and obviously before hand). Theres a reason gals became extremely rare to see in PS, and its not because everyone certed other means of transportation. Its because they're flying XP, and that is about all they're good for.

You have a 90% better chance of your squad making it to a drop zone if they all cert skeet with drop skills then one person and gal.
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Old 2012-03-14, 03:17 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


I'm not sure why we are talking OS's. The Gal will be long gone before then.

Like I said, giant barn with dudes pouring out.

Right over there ------>

The thing could have 20 guns on it, have you SEEN the new aircav?

Perhaps that why we need all the new spawning systems that do not rely on someone to have placed them ( Less Teamwork ). IE: Spawn on squad.

They know it will be the #1 target on the field, and won't last long.
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Old 2012-03-14, 03:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by Skittles View Post
This is the part that is extremely short sighted on the dev teams about using the gal instead of the AMS as a spawn point. It will not matter in the long run Aircav will wreck the thing almost as soon as it lands (and obviously before hand). Theres a reason gals became extremely rare to see in PS, and its not because everyone certed other means of transportation. Its because they're flying XP, and that is about all they're good for.

You have a 90% better chance of your squad making it to a drop zone if they all cert skeet with drop skills then one person and gal.
Regardless, the Galaxy probably has a better chance of reaching it's LZ or circumventing enemies due to it's speed and independence of terrain features. Yes, it will be susceptible to AA, but it won't be much more susceptible to air as an AMS and it will be able to run away easier from ground threats. Map of the Earth flying will be huge.
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Old 2012-03-14, 03:33 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by MrBloodworth View Post
I'm not sure why we are talking OS's. The Gal will be long gone before then.
And why is that? If they actually make undeploying and flying away so fast that you would have time to escape a PS1 like OS, something is IMO a bit wrong.

Or are you still thinking that a Gal will be able to fly in the sky while spawning friendlies?
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Old 2012-03-14, 04:33 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by EVILPIG View Post
Regardless, the Galaxy probably has a better chance of reaching it's LZ or circumventing enemies due to it's speed and independence of terrain features. Yes, it will be susceptible to AA, but it won't be much more susceptible to air as an AMS and it will be able to run away easier from ground threats. Map of the Earth flying will be huge.
What the hell are you talking about? Are you seriously suggesting, which is EXACTLY how I read your post btw, that a Gal will be less susceptible to aircav then an AMS? How do you figure? The AMS may not have been the best moving vehicle in the game, but in the whole scheme of things at least it was semi-stealthy size wise and quick deployment wise. While OTOH, you have a gal which is the largest vehicle in the game flying around like a brick with wings. And, you think that nap of the Earth is going to be its saving grace?

This will be THE fastest thing altered in beta from a playstyle point of view is my guess, because 1 in 10 of these things will make it to its destination to last a grand total of 2-3mins. The amount of crying by gal pilots is going to be massive because of survivability both in air and on ground. At some point the gal pilots will simply give up spawning the things.

Nap of the Earth with a galaxy
Come on EP, you need to quit drinking kool-aid.
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Old 2012-03-14, 04:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by Coreldan View Post
And why is that? If they actually make undeploying and flying away so fast that you would have time to escape a PS1 like OS, something is IMO a bit wrong.

Or are you still thinking that a Gal will be able to fly in the sky while spawning friendlies?
I think you need to re-read his post. Hes saying the gal will be dead long before an OS would even be necessary to waste on it. The thing is the size of a PS1 tower. Everything not inside of a base will be firing at it simply because of its size.
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Old 2012-03-14, 04:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by Skittles View Post
What the hell are you talking about? Are you seriously suggesting, which is EXACTLY how I read your post btw, that a Gal will be less susceptible to aircav then an AMS? How do you figure? The AMS may not have been the best moving vehicle in the game, but in the whole scheme of things at least it was semi-stealthy size wise and quick deployment wise. While OTOH, you have a gal which is the largest vehicle in the game flying around like a brick with wings. And, you think that nap of the Earth is going to be its saving grace?

This will be THE fastest thing altered in beta from a playstyle point of view is my guess, because 1 in 10 of these things will make it to its destination to last a grand total of 2-3mins. The amount of crying by gal pilots is going to be massive because of survivability both in air and on ground. At some point the gal pilots will simply give up spawning the things.

Nap of the Earth with a galaxy
Come on EP, you need to quit drinking kool-aid.
Because the Galaxy has 4 gun slots, top, tail and wings. Throw some heavy armour on that bitch and you're looking at a flying tank that can shoot in all directions at once.

Yes that is what he is suggesting, there is absolutely no need for rude what-the-hells and seriously-suggestings. Have a civil discussion, people are allowed to disagree with you. He was polite, be polite back.
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Last edited by Skitrel; 2012-03-14 at 04:44 PM.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-03-14, 04:50 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


I think a gal outfitted with a defensive upgrade of top-armor and 4 AA guns would be quite a bit less susceptible to air-cav than an AMS. Probably wouldn't need all 4 AA guns, I think even just the top gun as an AA gun would be sufficient with the top armor helping reduce damage from aircraft while it is deployed.

Pilot flies in, deploys, switches to top-gun and fends off any aircraft. All it needs is a nearby engineer to keep her rep'd up and operate one of the other guns if needed. There you go, mobile forward base that can fend pretty well for itself. Far better than an AMS could (no defense whatsoever, fairly easy to destroy).

It's quite literally a mobile forward base that traded secrecy (cloak bubble) for durability & configurable guns.
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Old 2012-03-14, 04:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


It looks like the gal will be made into a forward base and not a courtyard spawnpoint. Hence it will most probably have it's own defensive systems to ensure it's not just the flying casket we saw in PS1. Think of it as a merger between the galaxy gunship, the AMS and the standard galaxy.

Something tells me it will also be able to take one hell of a beating in deployed mode.
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Old 2012-03-14, 05:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


i think they just removed the AMS because they want to keep players from placing one 50meters from a backdoor for ex.

having the gal take that function would mean you need to put it further away, like behind the nearest ridge line.
and because its not gonna be close to the base, you can give it powerfull defenses.
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This is the last VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-03-14, 05:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
Malorn
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by Bonius View Post
It looks like the gal will be made into a forward base and not a courtyard spawnpoint. Hence it will most probably have it's own defensive systems to ensure it's not just the flying casket we saw in PS1. Think of it as a merger between the galaxy gunship, the AMS and the standard galaxy.

Something tells me it will also be able to take one hell of a beating in deployed mode.
I didn't even see a courtyard in the base shown in the GDC video. Didn't look like any room in the interior of the base to land a galaxy, and Higby's galaxy was parked at the entrance.

Come to think of it, I didn't see a courtyard in the Bio Lab either.

Where do vehicles congregate for a push? Where do outfits mobilize if not in the courtyard of a base? that was the usual rally point. Seems to be missing. Their current player pool is pretty small so they may not have noticed things like that yet until people see the gaps in beta.
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Old 2012-03-14, 05:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


I just hope AA weapons are actually effective at getting kills and not a repellent like they were in PS1.

As for Gals, everything depends on the driver and engineer. The hardest part about effective AMS deployment was the right amount of aggression vs survivability. An aggressive deployment inside an enemy courtyard is going to result in a 30sec lifespan. However, it will deliver zerg into the heart of the base causing mayhem and disruption for those 30 seconds.

Parking it behind cover, hills, trees etc will effectively screen it from one form of attack or another and you hope that its guns are correctly configured for the remaining attack types. Also, the zerglings spewing out of it should help too. Gal will last longer, but footslogging into the base will set up kill zones and won't put enough pressure on the enemy.

I hate myself for saying this, but we're just going to have to wait for beta.
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Old 2012-03-14, 05:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
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Re: Deployed Galaxy Spawning


Originally Posted by Malorn View Post
I didn't even see a courtyard in the base shown in the GDC video. Didn't look like any room in the interior of the base to land a galaxy, and Higby's galaxy was parked at the entrance.

Come to think of it, I didn't see a courtyard in the Bio Lab either.

Where do vehicles congregate for a push? Where do outfits mobilize if not in the courtyard of a base? that was the usual rally point. Seems to be missing. Their current player pool is pretty small so they may not have noticed things like that yet until people see the gaps in beta.
That's my whole point. Forwards bases are somewhere out of the line of fire where you establish a foothold and run your ops from. It's not something you park right in the middle of an enemy base and say "Hey guys! Over here!".

Courtyard AMS's gave the attacking side such a huge advantage every single time, I for one am glad they're getting rid of the problem completely.

The rally point now will be the established FwB, along with the obvious "on-leader" spawn. Since bases are now split up into different sections this will also enable for a much more dynamic defense and assault, seeing as the angles of attack will be much more varied than before.

Bases seem to be actual infantry battlegrounds themselves with cover-to-cover combat, pathway defense, altitude differences and whatnot. Medics will play a much more important role now than before since the sheer size of the base would mean even if you had a courtyard AMS, it would take a while to get back into combat.
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