Spork watch: reply on surgile - Page 4

Majik · 2004-01-12, 11:30 AM

Using the surgile is just the players way of admitting that he sucks and has to use a known exploit to get any kills. I refuse to use surge and HA BECAUSE I know about the warping exploit. And everytime I get get 1 second killed by the noobhammer of someone that never fully appeared on my screen (usually about 20 times an hour in a good fight), I just remember that if the they were any good at the game they wouldn't have needed to vault over my head at mach 2 to kill me.

infinite loop · 2004-01-12, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Majik

Using the surgile is just the players way of admitting that he sucks and has to use a known exploit to get any kills.

That's an incredibly ignorant stereotype. I can name plenty of players that use surgile who could kick 99% of the playerbase's collective asses with or without surge. I agree that the warping sucks, but it's not up to the players to fix it by not using surge. And not everyone who uses surge bunny-hops, because that is a bit of an exploit. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

Queensidecastle · 2004-01-12, 11:59 AM

That's an incredibly ignorant stereotype. I can name plenty of players that use surgile who could kick 99% of the playerbase's collective asses with or without surge.

No because when you hit them with a jammer from your thumper they are as easy to kill as an exposed infiltrator

Madcow · 2004-01-12, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

That's an incredibly ignorant stereotype. I can name plenty of players that use surgile who could kick 99% of the playerbase's collective asses with or without surge.

Then why aren't they?

infinite loop · 2004-01-12, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

No because when you hit them with a jammer from your thumper they are as easy to kill as an exposed infiltrator

Uhhh I think you missed my point. I'm saying that there are plenty of players that will kill you even without surge. So no, just because you jammer them, they are not an automatic kill.

Queensidecastle · 2004-01-12, 01:03 PM

no, I didnt miss your point at all. In my experience the Surgiles are for the most part just medocre players using an exploit. When you take it away from them, they are like deer in headlights. Sure there are some players that are just going to own, even with standard and a supressor, but that is about 1-2% of the surgiles not the vast majority of them. In fact they tend to be the most predictable players:

Ejectovertowersurgiledownstairsbunnyhoppingoverany onetheysee
getto2ndfloorrunbackuptocchack. Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat

Laeritides · 2004-01-12, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

no, I didnt miss your point at all. In my experience the Surgiles are for the most part just medocre players using an exploit. When you take it away from them, they are like deer in headlights. Sure there are some players that are just going to own, even with standard and a supressor, but that is about 1-2% of the surgiles not the vast majority of them. In fact they tend to be the most predictable players:

Ejectovertowersurgiledownstairsbunnyhoppingoverany onetheysee
getto2ndfloorrunbackuptocchack. Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat Rinse/Repeat

In this example the surging person dosn't kill anyone. They are not using HA. How does that fit into the "exploit" That is being discussed?

Now here is an example of what happens.

Equip HA surge into tower, jump when you get on the first steep of the stairs. Other players see you go over there heads first. then they see you in there face and then they are dead. turn left or right and kill the next guy who is still trying to find you from when you warped from the bottom of the stairs. Rinse/Repeat

For a added touch straf left and right before you jump. They never see it coming.

I do see this as a problem, I don't think they will be able to fix the warping. The best fix, IMO, is to make is so you can not use surge while a weapon is out. Also you should not beable to rearm your weapon right away after using surge. There should be a 1 sec or so delay.

Queensidecastle · 2004-01-12, 01:32 PM

In this example the surging person dosn't kill anyone. They are not using HA. How does that fit into the "exploit" That is being discussed?

I thought that was a given in this discussion

OK, the nerfing of surge arguments are starting to piss me off. Surging in Rexo and using heavy assault is not, nor has it ever been a problem. Surging in Agile is a completely different story, but people on this forum continue to come forth with this half baked wholesale nerfing of surge argument and it is getting really tiresome. Start thinking with your heads and come up with creative ways to solve what the real issue is.

It is not just Surge. There is nothing wrong with the surge implant and using weapons. It is when you combine Surge, with Agile (or standard) and heavy assault that a problem develops. It is not an acceptable situation to move as fast as an agile can while surged, nor is it acceptable how long they can sustain surge before having to rest. That is it So lets address those problems directly. Lower the speed, and increase the drain of stamina dramatically and no one else needs to be nerfed in the process. You can still shoose to be an Agile trooper, you can still be a Rexo trooper and didnt have a whole implant nerfed as a result

Lithpope · 2004-01-12, 01:34 PM

I find outdoors surge monkeys humorous, see them coming drop a spitfire back up a little and watch thier punk ass get chewed up, I may not be able to get them but my "second gun" wastes them.

Gigabein · 2004-01-12, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

Lower the speed, and increase the drain of stamina dramatically and no one else needs to be nerfed in the process.

Yes. However, this should be approached carefully. Lower the speed first and gauge the effect it has. If the problem persists, increase the stamina drain but not dramatically. The goal is to keep Surge as a balanced option, and not nerf-bat it into oblivion with a knee-jerk reaction.

Kikinchikin · 2004-01-12, 03:20 PM

majick i guarantee i could own you with or without surge. I will pick up reinforced again just for u if u want so we can have a showdown. I played without surge for 6 months, i can certainly do it again. ur statement is generalizing the entire playerbase using surge, and is thus absolute garbage.
edit: to gigabein- thats not even related to what im saying. surge is not a balance issue. hell surge shouldn't even be the issue, warping should be. my point is that they put the three things in the game, so they must have assumed people would use it, but what they didnt know was the warping glitch.

I didn't start using surgile for the "cheap kill." I needed free cert space for other certs for my outfit's support. However if i ever find that I have 3 free points, reinforced will not be something high on my list to get back.

Majik · 2004-01-13, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Lilbird2431

majick i guarantee i could own you with or without surge. I will pick up reinforced again just for u if u want so we can have a showdown. I played without surge for 6 months, i can certainly do it again.

Ok, good for you. There are alot of players who own me without using surgile. My question isn't can you own me without using the exploit, it is why don't you? Why cheat when you say you don't need to? Why not play straight against everyone, instead of doing it to prove a point to one player? If you don't need to use a "Tactic" that allows you to get more kills then you should based on a known video glitch why not play the game without using the exploit and show what a good player you are with out it always?

That was my point, and I stand by my assertion that MOST players who surgile are doing it BECAUSE they know it will get them cheap kills.

infinite loop · 2004-01-13, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Majik

Ok, good for you. There are alot of players who own me without using surgile. My question isn't can you own me without using the exploit, it is why don't you? Why cheat when you say you don't need to? Why not play straight against everyone, instead of doing it to prove a point to one player? If you don't need to use a "Tactic" that allows you to get more kills then you should based on a known video glitch why not play the game without using the exploit and show what a good player you are with out it always?

That was my point, and I stand by my assertion that MOST players who surgile are doing it BECAUSE they know it will get them cheap kills.

I honestly don't believe the majority of surgile users do it to exploit warping knowingly. The primary reason for surge + HA is to close the gap between you and an enemy. Combine this with the element of surprise, and it usually equals a win in your favor, regardless of warping. As far as why don't we just give up surge until they fix the warping? That's the devs job, not mine. I pay to use any elements of the game I want, in whatever form is provided. If it's buggy, not my problem.

Madcow · 2004-01-13, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

I honestly don't believe the majority of surgile users do it to exploit warping knowingly. The primary reason for surge + HA is to close the gap between you and an enemy. Combine this with the element of surprise, and it usually equals a win in your favor, regardless of warping. As far as why don't we just give up surge until they fix the warping? That's the devs job, not mine. I pay to use any elements of the game I want, in whatever form is provided. If it's buggy, not my problem.

How about I believe how 'innocent' all of these warpers are when I'm in a tower that is being rushed and nobody hits jump on the stairs, mmmkay? How about when I actually send tells to them asking if they really need to purposely warp in order to survive they didn't send tells back that the devs know about it and aren't fixing it, so they're going to use it? Oh wait, that does sound familiar. Interesting.
Really, a lot of it comes down to people's feelings of inadequacy and cries for attention. When you think about it, it's no different than smoking in public in a large group of people who aren't smoking. Sure, it's your right to smoke there but it's common courtesy to find someplace that it wouldn't bother others. So your choices are: a) "Screw them, it's all about me." or b) Behave like a courteous human being.
The game is the same thing. Yes, you pay money to play. So do the people that you're purposely cheating in order to kill in the game. Why are you expected to have more right for your monthly fee than they are? The fact that they aren't exploiting doesn't mean they suck, it just means that they have more respect for other people than you do. Pretty simple, really.

infinite loop · 2004-01-13, 10:25 AM

Well, seeing as how I don't bunny-hop or do anything that I know causes the warping, I can't answer your questions. I'm just here to tell you I play with and and know plenty of surgile users that don't exploit the warp. I think it's cheap too, but I don't feel it warrants giving up surge altogether. You can warp w/o even having surge by the way, so let's not fool ourselves there. And I have no idea why I'm even discussing this anymore, I'm done.