Your thoughts on the "Ammo" Patch? (2-18-4)

[Acaila]

Originally Posted by BadAsh

I'm not sure where your < 5m "reply" came from, no one mentioned that distance. The Lasher used to not lash until it reached 10m. So, this buff is significant especually when faced with multiple opponents or when fighting a surging player at 10m. Surging cloakers, for example, are damn hard to hit because they run nearly as fast as your orbs.

I see that you disagree, but I feel dueling is relevant. In "normal" combat you can end up facing more than one enemy, you can get ambushed from behind, etc. In a duel all things are even other than the equipment you carry.

Lashers get owned in an "all things even" environment because the JH will just surge into your face and with his superior TTK will win. And the MCG will get at that sweet spot at medium range where he can still dodge some of your slow orbs while keeping a solid bead on you for the quick kill.

From your statement I assumed that you don't duel, because even at 5m or so hits are not guaranteed against a good surgile player. Smacking noobs all day in "normal" battle will not fully illustrate my point. The lasher simply requires more leading and prediction skills than other weapons and in some cases you simply can not always guess correctly.

The lash started at 5m (about halfway down the page), apparently SmokeJumper mentioned it (along with a mistake he corrected in this post. 1/6th of a second, there is the 5m travel time of a Lasher orb, you have to lead, but this imaginary strafing where people are able to avoid the orbs that hit them in 1/6 of a second is non-existant. It would be a skipping and warping issue. It is possible to hit them, they cannot avoid it, you are simply missing. The problem with the Lasher is the people who use it. People in alot of games consider certain weapons to be spam weapons, they just spray around and hope the bad man falls down. A good player knows that there is no such thing as a spam weapon and takes the time to learn how to maximise their hit potential. How can a duel be relevant when it begins in the niche of a particularly weapon? You start it at < 5m, unless a triple shot is landed properly, whoever pulls the trigger first wins. You start at 20m, the MCG will win. I would put my money on an MCG in basically any HA duel. You ever seen what looped on Markov does with a Lasher? I haven't heard of anyone who considers themselves better than he is with a HA weapon. You also seem to believe that TR and NC have a monopoly on surge. Surge will help you as it helps your opponent. Meh, perhaps your right, I don't have many kills as a VS, under 5k anyway, I have never had a problem killing with it. I don't duel, why would I want to duel in a game that is so poorly setup for dueling? This game doesn't revolve around 1v1 set encounters.

The people who could already land direct hits with the Lasher will continue to own, the people who can't will continue to get their asses handed to them but will inflict a bit of damage. That makes the people with bad aim dangerous in numbers. The patch hasn't changed all that much, except you can lash a rexo to death if they are afk now, it is a buff, but not that big of a buff. What the fuck are we arguing about anyway? Seriously, I can't actually figure it out.

Oh yeah, I stand by my "load of crap blah blah blah" statement.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

That was my exact thought until I saw it with my own eyes. 1 Plasma grenade + Surge + strafe = win 4 outa 5 times against the old lasher. The only difference now is that you get lash damage within 10m so I'd like to see if that Punisher Tactic still works.

The reason I blame the weapon and not the player is because when the 2 duelers switch weapons the win ratio also switches.

Typically in dueling the Lasher loses to: Punisher, Sweeper, Jack, and MCG on a consistant basis. The orbs are just too slow and the lashing damage is not substantial enough to turn a miss into a win.

In no way am I advocating a Lasher buff. I'm just pointing out that it sucks for dueling and that maybe with the new mini-buff it got in this patch that may change a little.

A plasma nade followed by bullets from a Punisher has a ttk better than any HA (bar triple shot) against a reinforced with a direct or very close nade hit. A Punisher has identical damage statistics to a Cycler at point blank if I remember greyfalcon's chart properly.

[BadAsh]

Acaila,

I think you and I are just comparing apples and oranges. The lasher is a fine field weapon and works wonders against groups of enemy troops, in hallways, against newer players, and against people who don�t see you coming because you successfully surprised or flanked them.

In a duel, however, things are a bit different. The slow orbs make the difference in a 1v1 match against a fast moving skilled opponent. Weapons that fire shot gun shells or 9mm bullets have no where near the lead time and are easier to hit with because less guessing is involved. So the Lasher does not fare so well in such a setting.

As to your point about the Punisher, perhaps it looks good against other weapons on paper, but in a duel it will consistently only beat a Lasher which was the point of my original statement.

Anyway assumption to your first reply proved true� �Obviously, you don�t duel��

[WritheNC]

I do think the JH is the weakest HA right now.

Yes, it is the most powerful up close, but in all around characteristics in range, it suffers too much in the other categories.

I think the JH should have a tighter spread.

The advantage of this is that you can still do decent damage at a respectable distance(since the pellets in a tighter spread will hit more).

The disadvantage is that your aim has to be better than it was in close quarters, since the spread is tighter and you need to put as much of the cof as you can on the person.

I'd make that trade if it were up to me, but its not.

[Biohazzard56]

Originally Posted by infinite loop

Wow nice stereotype there bud. Love how you lump me into that, having never squadded with me before. Truth is, I would guess that at least a third of my kills are with the gauss. But it doesn't matter. My point is, I'm pissed off, and I'm venting some steam. This thread is about the patch, and I'm giving my opinion. No need to attack me or flame me, that's pretty lame. I'm glad to hear you still own, golf claps all around

Ive squadded with you once and I didnt say infinite loop, and im sorry about flaming about the "suck part" I wasnt particulary going after you just a rant about NC on our server.

[TheN00b]

I honestly think that the Jackhammer should be replaced by another weapon altogether. While I know that every Empire is different, I feel that they should all retain some basic similiarities, and I think that the Jackhammer has an emphasis on an entirely different zone of combat then the other two HA weapons due. In order to make these three more alike, I propose that the Jackhammer be laid by the wayside in favor of a fairly accurate, slow-firing railgun, which would suit both the style of the NC and the HA cert on the whole. But that's just my 1.5 Euros.

[Biohazzard56]

Since seeing the light, bitcing about HA is pointless. I think of it like Gay Marrages, if thats their thing let them do it and dont bitch about it, as long as i dont have to hear people bitch about it (the media) ill be fine.

Edit: I just boiled down the HA controversy to Gay Marrage, oh well. I think you see my point

[Kaymon]

Originally Posted by Biohazzard56

Edit: I just boiled down the HA controversy to Gay Marrage, oh well. I think you see my point

Hey, I can compare the MCG to a dick.

It sticks out of your hip and shoots hundreds of little guys. But only one or two make it to their intended destination.

[Dharkbayne]

[Biohazzard56]

Thats not a big deal...

I can compare the Lasher to a Vagina.

Wait, no i cant

The only thing thats right it does lash within 5m, but it realisticly doesnt have a range of more than 2cm....You know what? I have nothing, lame post

[Kaymon]

The Lasher is like a woman.

You can handle it when there's only one. But when there are a lot of them, you can't avoid lash damage.

[Biohazzard56]

I think you should stop posting to

No way to describe it

[WritheNC]

I just logged off, and all I can say now is the devs released too much in one patch.

Buffing the lasher reload time, the lasher clip size, and the "bug fix" to the JH is too profound of a change all at once in lieu with the ammo changes.

I think this caused too much shock for most people to handle.

I would have fixed the JH secondary fire mode this week, given the lasher faster reload the next week, and a larger clip the week after that.

I'm going to wait a week for people to settle down before I play again and form any strong opinions. Right now VS has a crazy population spike because of the recent changes so its a little difficult to fight them atm.

[infinite loop]

Originally Posted by Biohazzard56

Ive squadded with you once and I didnt say infinite loop, and im sorry about flaming about the "suck part" I wasnt particulary going after you just a rant about NC on our server.

It's all good man, I think we're both equally frustrated for one reason or another, and these forums are our place to vent. I do agree though, there are far too many NC who refuse to fight anywhere but indoors with a JH. It's become obvious as these people have switched sides since the patch, as we are outnumbered consistently now. So I will suck it up, and continue to use my peashooter, and help out the NC however I can. This patch still sucks ass tho

[Onizuka-GTO]

erm....excuse me, but is the ammo patch up already? Because I just fired up my launcher and it doesnt seem to say anything about a new update patch......

[Madcow]

The last patch (last week) was the ammo patch, although it didn't include the grenade ammo change for some inexplicable reason.