Your thoughts on the "Ammo" Patch? (2-18-4) - Page 6

Zatrais · 2004-02-23, 01:16 PM

Just a note on the current Lasher, i wouldn't get to fond of it if i was VS. Theres been all sorts of checking done on it and does appear that the lasher is indeed bugged.

The bug is that the lasher appears to lash in the orbs forward facing arch about 66% of the time. Thats something the lasher was never intended to be able to do, the lash was sposed to be a compensation for missing the target. Anyways, when the lash happens in the forward facing arc of the orb the lasher does insane amounts of damage. A normal hit on an agile does 23 health damage in close quarters, whit the lash it suddenly does 32 health damage pr shot.

Lasher should be alright again once thats fixed. Its abit much in its current incarnation hehe.

GreyFlcn · 2004-02-23, 01:21 PM

Uhm not 66% of the time.

Just most the time at 3-4m range, and 7-9m range

Zatrais · 2004-02-23, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by GreyFlcn

Uhm not 66% of the time.

Just most the time at 3-4m range, and 7-9m range

Yeh, and alot of indoor combat happens in ranges below 10 meters so your bracket makes it lash aproximently 50% of the time. I found it to be abit more, but its of little matter. Its a hell of a nasty bug and i hope it gets fixed soon.

Dharkbayne · 2004-02-23, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Madcow

The last patch (last week) was the ammo patch, although it didn't include the grenade ammo change for some inexplicable reason.

Alas, 'tis because the devs are never going to buff the infils. Evar.

infinite loop · 2004-02-23, 02:13 PM

Wait, can you elaborate on this bug? Me confused. Are you saying that each shot that is a direct hit causes normal damage AND lash damage simultaneously?

Fenrys · 2004-02-23, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

Wait, can you elaborate on this bug? Me confused. Are you saying that each shot that is a direct hit causes normal damage AND lash damage simultaneously?

The lash happens first, then the orb hits and you take even more damage. Not exactly simutaneous, but pretty close.

BadAsh · 2004-02-23, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

Wait, can you elaborate on this bug? Me confused. Are you saying that each shot that is a direct hit causes normal damage AND lash damage simultaneously?

I've not noticed this "bug". With a MCG and or Jack I can take down a Lasher pretty consistantly. I think people are getting confused with the raw amount of Lasher users. It's human nature to rush out and try the new toy and that's the status of the Lasher for now. Soon that will die off and things will be back to normal.

The Lasher is about as effective as it was before with the exception that you can get an additional kill per clip because of the increased clip size. This just gives you the capability that the MCG and Jack have been enjoying for some time now, so no big deal there.

What I have seen though is defensive positions with 10+ Lashers firing at a single choke point entrance. Now that is what I've not seen in a while and how so many are getting owned. The VS are a tough opponent now because you are either facing a New Lasher/New Lancer/New Rexo Infantry guy OR a VS MAX. Add the usual swarm of Magriders and Reavers to that mix and you have a formidable force to deal with.

Gone are the days of getting your agile+jack+surge and riding around in your vanguard uncontested on land or in a building.

IMHO It's nice to see the VS with an effective HA and the TR with tuff integrated MAX and Infantry units. That DC MAX is nice!

infinite loop · 2004-02-23, 03:02 PM

Sorry ash, seems some testing has confirmed it is a bug:

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/p...ML/035712.html
http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/p...ML/002176.html

BadAsh · 2004-02-23, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by infinite loop

Sorry ash, seems some testing has confirmed it is a bug:

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/p...ML/035712.html
http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/p...ML/002176.html

Firstly

It remains to be seen how unbiased those player tests are... but let's assume they are accurate...

Take a "bugged" Lasher and stand him toe to toe with a Jack. Have both in agile armor and have the Jack use only stand fire mode, not the tri-shot. Then on queue have them go at it. The Jack wins every time.

Now try this test at meduim range and the Jack wins only about half the time with agile and surge.

So the Jack wins in CQB and looses (sometimes) at medium range without even breaking out the power of the tri-shot.

So even the "overpowered" and "horrifically bugged" that "must be fixed now" Lasher is still not as powerful as a jackhammer...

Secondly

Though not directly targeted towards you... I find it amusing that the same people who were denouncing nerfs and bug fixes for the Jackhammers infamous "quad-shot" ability and huge killing ammo potential are now screaming about a slight potential damage bug with the Lasher... so you take an extra 7 points of lash damage every 3rd shot? This is no where near as crushing as the quad shot or the capacity of 10 kills per box of ammo that shotgun shells represented... but the crying about it is already legendary...

Sorry if my composure breaks down to a loud...

infinite loop · 2004-02-23, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Firstly

It remains to be seen how unbiased those player tests are... but let's assume they are accurate...

Take a "bugged" Lasher and stand him toe to toe with a Jack. Have both in agile armor and have the Jack use only stand fire mode, not the tri-shot. Then on queue have them go at it. The Jack wins every time.

I haven't performed the tests myself, but from the tests I've read about on the OF, I think your TTK here is off. I've killed and been killed by a lasher in rexo in 3 or 4 shots. I think that TTK is equal to or faster than that of a JH at that range. Just speculating right now though.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Though not directly targeted towards you... I find it amusing that the same people who were denouncing nerfs and bug fixes for the Jackhammers infamous "quad-shot" ability and huge killing ammo potential are now screaming about a slight potential damage bug with the Lasher... so you take an extra 7 points of lash damage every 3rd shot? This is no where near as crushing as the quad shot or the capacity of 10 kills per box of ammo that shotgun shells represented... but the crying about it is already legendary...

Again, I think you have your numbers messed up. The bug can apparently happen on every single shot, not just every third shot. And lash damage is 14 pts, not 7. So let's say it happens 50% of the time. After 4 shots that's an extra 28 pts of damage. I consider that to be huge. Even if it's only 33% of the time, that's 28 pts more over 6 shots. Still pretty crushing if you ask me.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Sorry if my composure breaks down to a loud...

Personally I haven't done any screaming about the lasher directly. Before I knew about the bug, I was pretty happy with the buff, I've thought it was needed all along. But if this bug is true, then it could definitely account for the crippling forces the VS have hit the NC and TR with over the last week, and I would hope it gets fixed quickly. Oh and, I still defy you to convince me that "fixing" the quad-shot was a bugfix. It was simply another instance of the whiners getting the best of the devs, when they should know better.