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Old 2011-07-24, 07:12 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
headcrab13
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Ragdoll in Forgelight?


The advanced nature of the Forgelight engine seems to suggest that ragdoll animation will be featured in PS2, though I haven't seen it officially mentioned. I think this adds the potential for some incredibly cinematic moments.

I always felt the tower battles in PS1 could have benefited from ragdoll, when your faction is pushing to get up several levels of stairs. It would be amazing to see enemy bodies rolling down the steps toward you as you charged up at the opposition, firing wildly and throwing grenades, as the explosions tossed enemies against the ceiling and walls.

They could also use ragdoll in some other interesting ways, such as having a shotgun blast knock someone over the railing on the top deck of a tower, or having a Galaxy go down in a fiery blast that sent the passengers flying in different directions.

Do you guys expect to see ragdoll, and if so, how would this add to the feel of PS2?

-HC13
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Old 2011-07-24, 07:26 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


It would be awesome if that was how it is going to be... Id love to be stacked on a door and all of a sudden you see a dead body fly over the rail and it falls down to the ground as you and your team breach the door you head in only to see the number 1 man shot back up against the wall... That would be awesome just sounds like too much animation for massive battles.
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Old 2011-07-24, 07:30 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Do remember that all corpse locations must be synchronized across all players. And if they keep moving, rolling down stairs and stuff all the clients have to be constantly updated about them

Does not sound like a very performance-efficient idea to me

Last edited by FastAndFree; 2011-07-24 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 2011-07-24, 07:32 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
cashfoyogash
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Originally Posted by RavenLord View Post
Do remember that all corpse locations must be synchronized across all players...
Does not sound like a very performance-efficient idea to me
Exactly, i just dont want to run in the same problem with PS2 when its released as we had in PS1... Took a super computer to run everything that was going on and it would still be choppy.
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Old 2011-07-24, 07:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


There are ragdoll physics in the game.
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Old 2011-07-24, 08:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
headcrab13
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Originally Posted by Hamma View Post
There are ragdoll physics in the game.
Awesome, I hadn't seen any word on this yet but that's great news.

As you guys mentioned, if reviving will be done the same way, they'll need a system in place to synchronize bodies. If an explosion blows a body off the top of a tower on my client-side ragdoll calculation, and my dead squadmate's ragdoll calculation throws him into the railing, keeping him on the roof, then I might have to run down 4 flights of stairs and out into a firefight to revive him, whereas he sees himself on the roof the whole time.

If reviving was done in some other manner, however, they wouldn't need to sync up the ragdolls, and every player could be seeing a different simulation. Seems like this would be the most efficient solution.

-HC13
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Old 2011-07-24, 08:55 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Originally Posted by RavenLord View Post
Do remember that all corpse locations must be synchronized across all players. And if they keep moving, rolling down stairs and stuff all the clients have to be constantly updated about them

Does not sound like a very performance-efficient idea to me
APB had ragdolls, but after the point u died, the game just sent info that "player X died, go go ragdoll him", but the actual ragdoll part was done by each client seperately.

Worked well enough, given the scale of people wasnt as big.

I used to fraps a lot of gameplay and couple of times it was funny to watch when the angry enemy finally killed me and decided to want to T-bag me or empty his mag on my body, but on my screen it often looked like he was doing it to some random part on the ground, instead of on me, cos he saw my location differently.

So make ragdolls, they can be calculated client side instead of being synchronized.

EDIT: Now that I think, if rezzing is gonna be in, then the corpses really have to end up in the same place on everybodys screen :/

Last edited by Coreldan; 2011-07-24 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 2011-07-24, 08:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


sometimes ragdoll just looks terrible though, i'm pretty sure when you stand on a grenade your body doesn't stand intact and bounce off the ceiling, but equally if they blow people to pieces then the rating goes up and players go down
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Old 2011-07-24, 09:03 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
headcrab13
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
sometimes ragdoll just looks terrible though, i'm pretty sure when you stand on a grenade your body doesn't stand intact and bounce off the ceiling, but equally if they blow people to pieces then the rating goes up and players go down
Yeah, as much as I'd like to see a Fallout 3-style grenade effect where your target is blown limb from limb, we both know why that doesn't fit PS2. So since bodies have to stay intact, I'd much rather see impulses like grenades, tank shells, and OS's affect bodies rather than having this massive blast and a bunch of bodies that sit there like they've frozen to the ground.

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Old 2011-07-24, 09:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


I believe T-Ray put it very goodly that Forgelight can do crazy things, ragdoll shouldn't be a problem.

Rendering 1000 different pieces of armor? --->
Originally Posted by T-Ray View Post
I introduce to you............FORGE LIGHT!!!!!!!
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Old 2011-07-24, 09:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


I've never got the obsession with ragdolling. It's kind of cool at first I suppose but it gets kind of old eventually. I don't care if it's their or no really, as long as it doesn't hamper performance. I don't care what death looks like as long as it doesn't interfere with whats going on when I'm alive.
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Old 2011-07-24, 09:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Every game seems to incorporate that "Havok" engine or whatever it's called and it's kind of a staple in every game now.





However if you link in this screen shot by the TR on the right how is crouching you can see an NC behind him that's dead in what appears to be your standard death animation/position. Perhaps they haven't implemented the ragdoll physics yet or maybe it was positioned that way for show or maybe they didn't want to take a screencap of a NC flailing around because his arm is going through the floor and spazzing out.

I don't really care about ragdoll, I can take it or leave it. I think it will provide many laughs when I got shot directly in a face by a Vanguard and shoot across the entire continent however.
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Old 2011-07-24, 09:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #13
headcrab13
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Originally Posted by WarChimp130 View Post
I've never got the obsession with ragdolling. It's kind of cool at first I suppose but it gets kind of old eventually. I don't care if it's their or no really, as long as it doesn't hamper performance. I don't care what death looks like as long as it doesn't interfere with whats going on when I'm alive.
It's just a logical evolution in game engine technology. That's like saying "I never got the obsession with moving from vector graphics to textured objects."

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Old 2011-07-24, 09:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #14
WarChimp130
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


No I get that it's the next step, but like I said it's not that make or break for me and if it hurts the actual game to have it in, I'd rather leave it out. If they can get it in no problem then go for it.

I just worry it's going to look a little goofy when a Gal pops and you see a squad of corpses flying through the sky with their arms rapidly flailing about. Not that it wouldn't be kind of funny to watch, I just don't know if it might be too goofy.
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Old 2011-07-24, 12:33 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
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Re: Ragdoll in Forgelight?


Clientside ragdolls.

I'm betting the position of the body would be marked, though the orientation/flailing physics part would be purely clientside.

I have no expertise, but that seems reasonable.
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