Infiltrator == schizo class?

Figment · 2012-05-04, 07:03 PM

Thread from june 2012, bumped in october 2012, take that into account while reading the first 6 pages!

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The infiltrator is a bit of a unique class in PS2 in that it does not seem to have a very defined role.

Traditionally the infil could be split into:

Infiltrator - stealth spec ops inside enemy buildings, prepping bases for assaults by friendlies as well as scouting. Very non-combative and supportive.

Cloaked assassin - infil that focuses on picking off the weak and wounded, taking out snipers and isolated targets. In PS2 apparently we get the sniper role as well.

Saboteur - disrupting enemy supply lines, draining bases, destroying equipment and one of the most fun and important things: stealing enemy vehicles (ams, gal, tanks). This last bit will be missed in PS2 As far as I know.

The roles above were enhanced by the ACE in all its versatility and the cloaked AMS. These two things seemed to have largely gone missing with engineering class and Galaxy monopolising these roles.

In return, this traditionally close range unit gaines sniper role capacity.

The character of the infil seems to have changed drastically and I personally feel its options - especially with the lack of ams is sorely diminished (spawnpoint that is very needed for cloakers what with low survivability and risky positioning).

Many players who did not infil may not see the problem or enormous impact this will have, but I feel as if the infil class has both been overnerfed and lost appeal with the changes in engineering, scavenging and hacking vehicles, as well as lacking the support of the ams. At the same time I'm afraid of the infil being buffed with weapons, range and firepower it does not need nor needs to have.

What I see happening is the focus of the infil class moving heavily to the cloaker killwhore assassin type. Most my fun was in the other two, even if that got me few kills and many deaths. This might be due to devs seeing action and personal kills as most fun, like how they felt driving was boring without consulting me or anyone else on that. Basically, I fear catering to those who want non stop action may result in the careful, covert ops being largely overlooked or at least misrepresented somewhat.

I really miss some basic tools to do the type of thing I loved doing in PS. To me, that feels like 'dumbing down' or at least reducing my options. I mean, it's more like sniping got more options, infil did not, as sniping was already possible, just moved to another suit with temp cloaking.

Figment · 2012-05-04, 07:07 PM

Oh and the Router is gone too, obviously a big change for infil gameplay too. No Wraith or Phantasm makes moving to your destination fast and undetected a lot harder too. It is as of yet unknown whether cloaked vehicles will be added at all: maybe after release. That handicaps the cloaker further.

Raka Maru · 2012-05-04, 07:22 PM

I agree that all the things you stated above will be missed. I played stealth/engineer most of the time.

It doesn't sound hopeless however. We have gadgets promised. I will have to fly a Gal instead of my beloved AMS. I can now carry a sniper rifle in my stealth mode, this is something I couldn't do before. Will not be able to jack vehicles, but maybe demolition is possible with C4.

Anxious to see how it plays out now.

CutterJohn · 2012-05-04, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

The infiltrator is a bit of a unique class in PS2 in that it does not seem to have a very defined role.

Their role is being sneaky. PS2 classes are extremely 'loose' by anyones standards.

one of the most fun and important things: stealing enemy vehicles (ams, gal, tanks). This last bit will be missed in PS2 As far as I know.

Fun, but not important. 99.99999% of time, hacking a vehicle was just a method of making the enemies use their ammo to destroy it rather than your own.

Figment · 2012-05-04, 07:38 PM

A Galaxy is the most useless tool for an infil ever; nothing screams for more attention!

I would never even consider bringing one, stealing sure, bringing? Hell no.

Another thing that will be missed more on infil than other infantry is third person. Situational awareness is your only defense next to your cloak. I spent 90% of my time in third person to look behind and around me while hacking a console, vehicle or door. It is imperative for timing and aborting any actions. It is also the only way to safely navigate a minefield (walk through middle of diatance between mines), look for boobytraps, check if your movement is visible and of course if somebody is coming (if you move while they come near you, you get spotted and die, lag was bad enough for that).

You don't need to be cloaked to snipe, this and that shotgun they consider will only lead to close range headshot sniping and shotgun rapage. I'm afraid that is just going to annoy enemies and cries for nerfs, tbh. :/

Figment · 2012-05-04, 07:43 PM

Cutter, not true: it serves as distraction can cause a lot of damage (mbt), denies firepower (tanks) or logistics: spawns - ams, transportation/prevents hot drop (gal) or slows repairs (lodestar), with it stalling and often turning an entire battle.

I changed the flow and outcome of at least four battles a day with it.

Baneblade · 2012-05-04, 08:32 PM

Honestly, PS1 catered way too much to infils.

EVILPIG · 2012-05-04, 08:58 PM

I expect to see a variety of roles addressed in the Infiltrator tree.

Raka Maru · 2012-05-04, 09:13 PM

Figment, you are getting me depressed again about my favorite role. All your concerns are also my concerns.

I was trying however to look on the bright side because I don't really know what those bright sides will be, as in gadgets.

Vancha · 2012-05-04, 09:33 PM

Yeah, I'm slightly worried about this. I get the feeling that infiltrators non-combat roles may have gone with the faster pace of the game, but we'll see.

I mainly just came here to pick on your use of the word schizo.

CutterJohn · 2012-05-04, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Cutter, not true: it serves as distraction can cause a lot of damage (mbt), denies firepower (tanks) or logistics: spawns - ams, transportation/prevents hot drop (gal) or slows repairs (lodestar), with it stalling and often turning an entire battle.

I changed the flow and outcome of at least four battles a day with it.

Stealing them to take them for joyrides was unimportant. 'Stealing' them so the enemies would destroy them for you was useful. They could accomplish mostly the same thing by letting you hack a self destruct timer, or simply by planting explosives(i.e. C4).

Originally Posted by Figment

You don't need to be cloaked to snipe, this and that shotgun they consider will only lead to close range headshot sniping and shotgun rapage. I'm afraid that is just going to annoy enemies and cries for nerfs, tbh. :/

They've already prenerfed cloakers with sniper rifles, making them very much not invisible, even when motionless. I presume they will do something similar with shotguns, though perhaps not to the same degree.

Really the only major change I'm seeing is the [presumed] lack of cloaking spawn and transport.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-05-04, 10:18 PM

I share your concerns about limited roles but I think that the Wraith is now making it into the game if I recall a comment by Higby correctly. When it was last mentioned that there would be no cloaking vehicles and a small storm brewed up and he change their position on it.

Stealing vehicles isn't so much about being very effective so much as it's about having a really good time. Managing to steal a tank or aircraft is a joy. I remember stealing mossies to use for personal transport out of dangerous situations.