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Old 2012-04-13, 12:46 AM   [Ignore Me] #61
kertvon
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


What purpose does hot swapping accomplish in planetside 2??? There should be enough player saturation that finding teammates to man the necessary positions should suffice to negate the need for it. This is another one of those head scratching design revisions. The original vehicle entry position and external position switching worked just fine to me. I must admit that while I am super excited about this game, other than for the obvious reason (money) I can't help but wonder why the strict and complex merchanics of the original ps are being replaced with gimmicky nonsense. The game needs to be fun, not spoon fed.
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Old 2012-04-13, 01:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #62
Bazilx
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


My question is that even though there are several seats, each one has a different function. One has to pick the seat that is the best for that particular person and since it's friday, you pretty much have to get down and pick a seat but which seat shall you take?
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Old 2012-04-13, 07:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #63
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


Originally Posted by Bazilx View Post
My question is that even though there are several seats, each one has a different function. One has to pick the seat that is the best for that particular person and since it's friday, you pretty much have to get down and pick a seat but which seat shall you take?
Nice one lol
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Old 2012-04-13, 02:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #64
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


Originally Posted by MrBloodworth View Post
You must Cert to Drive/gun. Instead of the current, you have to cert to have a dedicated gunner.
I agree with this. Instead of starting out with driving/gunning and having to cert into dedicated driving, why not start with dedicated driving and allow certing into driving/gunning?

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth View Post
No re-spawning inside a tank, what the hell. You died, you lost that Vech. Sad part is the cloaker can't hack it (PS2). I suppose this is so no ones feelings are hurt.

We really need animations back, and kill this Function key switching. This is just a nurf to cloaker windows of opportunity, And its sad.
Again we share the same sentiments. I suggested to Matt Higby that since we can't hack vehicles, Cloakers should have a tool that works like hacking but deconstructs the vehicle instead. As far as vehicles and spawning we really need to break the whole scenario down and look at it individually before we can just make blanket statements.

So lets break it down into these parts: Entering, Exiting, Seat Swapping, Gunning, Repairs, Death, Respawning.

Entering - Entering a vehicle should be pretty self explanatory, however when we take into consideration seat swapping it becomes a more complicated issue. You walk up to the vehicle and push the button to enter it just like you would expect, however where you enter the vehicle from no longer matters. In Plantside 1, if you were being attacked and ran to a vehicle to retaliate, you needed to make sure you were on the correct side of the vehicle so you could man whichever weapon you needed at the time. With seat swamping it removes this entire concept, allowing anyone to simply walk up to a vehicle from any position and teleport into the vehicle, where they are free to then change their seat from within the safety of the vehicle.

Exiting - Again exiting should seem like a pretty self explanatory situation, however we go back to the seat swapping scenario and see how it affects the exiting process. In Planetside 1, wherever you entered the vehicle from would be where you exited from, but with seat swapping that will no longer be the case. When exiting will you arrive at the location of the seat you're in outside of the vehicle? Or will you simply pop out in a random position? If it's the former then we'll probably see everyone swap seats as they are exiting to leave from the 'safe' side of the vehicle. If the latter, then that'll really screw up some tactics.

Seat Swapping - There isn't anything wrong with seat swapping in my opinion, it is more realistic and happens in the military all the time. However, as was mentioned before in the thread, instantaneous swapping should be avoided at all cost. I certainly like the timed swapping solution, but then we neglect some other classes of gameplay options. If certain seats couldn't be swapped to and leaving the vehicle was required, then there would be that danger aspect from cloakers and enemy snipers.

Gunning - I think the main reason for seat swapping is to make sure someone is always on the gun. This is completely understandable and fine with me, as switching gunners happens all the time within military vehicles without exiting the vehicle itself. This really brings up a few questions though as to why we would need to switch gunners in the first place. The first obvious reason is for when someone leaves the vehicles and there's no longer a gunner, but another reason could be if players in the gunner positions take damage while gunning. This will be talked about more in the Death and Respawning sections

Repairs - Combat Engineers seem to get the short end of the stick in regards to seat swapping. They will be the only class that is required to leave the vehicle to do their job, unless simply being in the vehicle makes repairs without input from the combat engineer at all. I definitely hope its the former rather than the latter, but who knows what the developers have in mind. Honestly for it to be a fair system, the combat engineer shouldn't have to leave the vehicle to perform their job, but that just doesn't seem fun in my opinion.

Death - If Planetside 1 is any indication of how death will work in a vehicle for Planetside 2, then when the vehicle explodes you and all your passengers die. However, lets go back to the Gunner section for a moment and consider if while Gunning you take damage. I could only assume while driving that you could also die if directly targeted as well, but realistically I would stick with if the vehicle explodes then you die.

Respawning - Respawning and vehicles would only be an issue if you take damage as a Gunner or Driver separate from the damage the vehicle is taking. If you do not take damage while you're a gunner or driver then respawning within a vehicle would be pointless since the vehicle would be destroyed. Squad Spawning within a vehicle is a different matter altogether, and I really like what bullet and Stardouser came up with. When squad spawning into a vehicle, you're limited to a 'naked' loadout to specifically serve as a vehicle gunner/passenger.

Just a few thoughts on everything. I don't think I've come to any real conclusions yet, but I can understand some of the design choices the team are making. Remember, we haven't seen how all of this works in-game yet, and until then we really can't make an informed decision on anything.
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Last edited by Saieno; 2012-04-13 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Fixed typos
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Old 2012-04-13, 02:59 PM   [Ignore Me] #65
Bags
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


I doubt you can spawn in a tank. Higby only had options to spawn in galaxies, a base, and towers.
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Old 2012-04-13, 04:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #66
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


Guess my post is TL;DR lol
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Old 2012-04-13, 04:40 PM   [Ignore Me] #67
Talek Krell
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


Originally Posted by Typwn View Post
Guess my post is TL;DR lol
You did kind of go on, but I agree with a lot of your points.

I won't support spawning in vehicles though, even with the gunner loadout. I think we should ensure that the logistics of getting to a battle are critically important, and I don't want to shortcut that too much. I don't think there are any multi-person vehicles where a crew member is vulnerable to fire, but even if there were I don't see why it should be that easy to replace gunners anyway.
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Old 2012-04-13, 10:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #68
Raka Maru
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Would be nice if instead of just deconstruct, a cloaker could recycle and steal the nanites and put into his own bank. That'll teach you to leave your ride unattended.
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Old 2012-04-13, 11:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #69
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


Originally Posted by Hmr85 View Post
I'm fine with players being able to move to different seats. I do however think there should be a time limit on how long it takes for the player to swap and get in the firing position. Say like 5 seconds because that seems like a realistic amount of time for me.

I'll list below what I think is a acceptable time it takes for players to swap spots. This is just my opinion.

Galaxy: Allow players to move to all seats if needed. My reasoning behind it is you have a huge cargo hold in the middle of it. There is no reason you couldn't get up and walk to the other side. 5 sec timer on it. If there is a vehicle in the cargo hold extend the timer out 10 seconds. After all they gotta walk around that thing.

MBT's: Your sealed inside the tank with your crew. Even in todays standards if your gunner gets taken out your commander/reloader has the ability to assume that position. Put a 5 sec timer on it. If SOE goes back to the PS1 style of MBT's then the driver should not be able to move to the gunner spot. After all the driver seat and the turret are sealed off from one another if you look at the modern tanks of today.

Sunderer: Same as the two mentioned above. There is no reason why you couldn't get up and move to the gun if needed. Its a APC and the inside should be open. 5 sec timer on it.

Liberator: I don't have a problem with the Bomber moving to the tail gunner spot if the new lib is as big as the galaxy. I kind of look at it as a huge B-24 with the ball turret. No reason you couldn't scuttle back to the turret and assume the position. I believe the timer on this one though should be about 8 seconds. Its gonna take you a little longer to get into that ball turret and get the gun powered up. After all it was a cramped position for the old WW2 gunners.
This would be the perfect thing to have in PS2, and what would be even cooler is if there was an animation that allowed you to see through your vehicle so you could actually see yourself moving into a different seat.

If something like this can't be implemented though I would much rather just stick with vehicle enter/exit animations. Instantly switching seats is completely unacceptable.
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Old 2012-06-15, 06:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #70
Sulaco
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


Originally Posted by Tialian View Post
This would be the perfect thing to have in PS2, and what would be even cooler is if there was an animation that allowed you to see through your vehicle so you could actually see yourself moving into a different seat.

If something like this can't be implemented though I would much rather just stick with vehicle enter/exit animations. Instantly switching seats is completely unacceptable.
Completely agree with this. I loved the animated vehicle entry/exit, it added so much detail to the game that nobody else ever seems to do. In a game that's all about massive-scale combat across huge maps with hundreds of players, I don't see anything wrong with slower actions like this. It's not Battlefield 3 where the entire battle is in one location. Presumably preparing a strike against a base takes some preparation and organization between squads (if you wanted to play 'properly'), so keeping the animated vehicle stuff would add to that level of immersion and preparedness.

There's nothing cooler than seeing a squad physically loading into a Galaxy, including a vehicle driving up the loading ramp into the back, then taking off and heading out on an assault mission.

EDIT

Pardon me, I forgot that HALO did this too, and it did look awesome.

Last edited by Sulaco; 2012-06-15 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 2012-06-15, 06:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #71
Mechzz
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


aahhh vehicle entry/exit animations.

I wonder if this was top of the list on the First Platoon's agenda?
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Old 2012-06-15, 06:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #72
Sabot
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Re: Vehicle Seats Question


Originally Posted by Mechzz View Post
aahhh vehicle entry/exit animations.

I wonder if this was top of the list on the First Platoon's agenda?
Gieeeeef! Come on devs...
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