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Old 2012-07-10, 03:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
wraithverge
Sergeant
 
Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


rear armor weakness, vehicle has a single health pool, not a per side health pool. There is currently no advantage to driver and gunner as it would be better to face enemy at all times and slug it out.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:02 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
Gandhi
First Lieutenant
 
Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


I'm still of the opinion that the Lightning tank is the solo vehicle, if you want to gun your own tank pull one of those.

I'll admit that finding a random guy to gun for you in Planetside 1 was never particularly fun, but it was tons of fun to have a squad mate who's on TS gunning for you. What the system needed was built in voice comms and a way to call targets for each other through the ingame UI, so that even two random people meeting on the battlefield could work together effectively. But instead of trying to improve the old system I guess they decided to just get rid of it altogether. It's not a gamebreaking change, people will get used to it, but I still find it disappointing.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
Landtank
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


I like the new solo tank design decision, it requires more skill, is more fun for me atleast, and will allow for larger tank battles. Should be fun!
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
Pancake
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


I think the biggest advantage is that people who want to shoot the big gun don't need someone to drive them around. More accessible to the MW3 zergs.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:07 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
Sephirex
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Originally Posted by Pancake View Post
I think the biggest advantage is that people who want to shoot the big gun don't need someone to drive them around. More accessible to the MW3 zergs.
I think you mean BF3 zergs. Modern Warfare players don't even get the pleasure of tanks.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
SgtExo
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv View Post
This is true. However, why does that necessitate Rambo gameplay? PS is intended to encourage teamplay. Join an outfit, find a gunny.

Also, they're talking about VOIP, so you'd probably be able to more efficiently communicate with the other person in the vehicle, even if they are a random.

-edit

Not saying you're wrong. It's just a discussion. There are always exceptions, and some people may have no trouble with it. It's more from the standpoint of encouraging group play. They're multi-man vehicles...
For me being able to drive and shoot does not automatically = Rambo. The teamwork i imagine with PS2 is not having 1 person drive and 1 person shoot, its about having 50 ppl driving and shooting at another 50 ppl while there are another 50 ppl in the skies and infantry all around trying to survive.

And i agree that a multi person vehicle will be better because you will have that second turret protecting you from planes and infantry trying C4 you rear (which i always love to do, and that second machine gunner can often make the difference for the tanks survival).

So having teamwork in PS2 should not mean that you have to get a PUG to use vehicles. Because most ppl i know don't own gaming rigs, I have always appreciated games that let you play alone and with teams without punishing you for your decision, and PS2 seems like that game. There will be vehicles that will require multiple ppl to use; Liberator, Galaxy, Sunderers. Some will let you play alone, but be more effective; ES MBT, Lightning. And there will be single player vehicles; Flash, ES planes.

I am also sure that in future patches, there will be more vehicles of every type added. I appreciate what the devs are trying to do here, and with the way the game is distributed, it will be really easy and certain that you will get constant updates to keep the game fresh.

As an idea, they might want to put in a super heavy tank that needs allot of ppl to use because of its size and power.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:10 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
vVRedOctoberVv
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Generally speaking, I am against "dumbing things down for the masses". The masses are stupid, thus the term using "dumbing down". Is it gamebreaking? No. Is it disappointing? Yes.


@Exo

That's true. And this is just the first release of a long running game. Other things may be added in on down the road.

Last edited by vVRedOctoberVv; 2012-07-10 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:13 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
Aberdash
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv View Post
Generally speaking, I am against "dumbing things down for the masses". The masses are stupid, thus the term using "dumbing down". Is it gamebreaking? No. Is it disappointing? Yes.


@Exo

That's true. And this is just the first release of a long running game. Other things may be added in on down the road.
Love seeing elitism and inflated egos and gamers never disappoint.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #24
KaB
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


This feature is going to kill the teamplay for sure. It comes from Dice's BF who recently destroyed its franchise with its third failed opus.

Im really wondering how SOE dealed with the casual/hardcore balance of the game. I know they need to make money, but if PS2 becomes one other stupid casual game for retarded-gamepad-kids it'll piss me off.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
Synapse
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


...because when I buy a tank, I am SO looking forward to some WASD driving back and forth on treads action, it gets me so excited to drive around trying to dodge other tanks all day. No way in hell I want to touch the big huge gun mounted on it, no way.

Single man tanks are the natural default, and it makes total sense in a game that wants to be fun.

I'm all for letting people split tanks later but the defaults are perfect as they are.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
MrKWalmsley
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv View Post
@Furret
However, the flip side of this is, when you cert for the tank, you know you're certing for the DRIVER position basically. If you want to gun, get in somebody else's tank.
You are forgetting a pretty simple and obvious solution to this. Build the damn thing, then get out, and let your partner get in, thereby taking the driver seat. Seriously, I cannot see how you did not see this blatant fix which would take only a few seconds.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
wasdie
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv View Post
The FPS gamers of today? You mean whiney 12 year olds playing CoD? Or grown men who act like whiney 12 year olds playing CoD? No thanks.
Such a terrible stereotype that is 100% incorrect. Keep believe it though, maybe it will come true.

Face it, Planetside was never that popular of a game. 10-30k people subbed at once max. That's a pretty damn small community compared to the big ones out there. You can't just keep making the game to appeal to that community if you want your game to grow.

Considering that Planetside is one of the very few games out there were a tanker cannot drive and gun at the same time (even the military sims have that), the number of people who would enjoy this feature is going to be limited to the very small amount of people who played Planetside. Even "hardcore" gamers are turned away by such a feature. You just defend it because it's what you know from Planetside.

It's a good change. If you work to cert out a tank you should be able to use the whole thing. Finding a decent gunner can be a completely pain the ass and if you're certed to drive a vehicle effectively, you can't really do anything else without despawning, changing your class, and respawning. Stuff is more focused now.

If you want the game to cater to a small, niche community, then you're basically wanting this now big-budget shooter that SoE put a lot of money into, to die just to keep some status quo of being a hardcore gamer.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:21 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
Aberdash
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


It's funny seeing people complain about the "dumb masses" and then complain that driving and shooting at the same time is too hard.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
wasdie
Second Lieutenant
 
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Originally Posted by vVRedOctoberVv View Post
Generally speaking, I am against "dumbing things down for the masses". The masses are stupid, thus the term using "dumbing down". Is it gamebreaking? No. Is it disappointing? Yes.


@Exo

That's true. And this is just the first release of a long running game. Other things may be added in on down the road.

By "dumbing down" you mean "changing gameplay design decisions that have gamebreaking problems" then yes, they are dumbing down this game.

Take the nostalgia glasses off for a few minutes and take a good long look at Planetside. The game has a lot of very poor design decisions all built form a different time. It's just one of the reasons the game never got extremely popular. If you want the devs to keep making the game to play JUST how you remember it and for that same audience you deem "hardcore", then you're working against the game actually being successful.
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Old 2012-07-10, 03:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
Sirisian
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Re: Driver/Gunners... NO!


Honestly this discussion has been done to death. If they made the drivers a completely boring role then they should do the same exact thing to aircraft. Aircraft are given both AI guns and AV weapons capable of killing a tank. Can you imagine how much the aircraft people here would bitch if people suggested they need a dedicated gunner to pull the trigger for their missiles?

What the developers did is the best decision for the game. You have teamwork in a tank to balance it by making weaknesses without a secondary gunner. It doesn't force teamwork on players. That's how all the vehicles should be designed. Something players can pull and use, but can also greatly increase their survivability with a secondary player.

That and a vehicle shouldn't be boring. This is an FPS. Players expect to be able to shoot things, not pull a tank to drive it around while someone else gets kills. I get that some players enjoyed the Planetside 1 tanks, but I can assure you most of the time you could have just shot the gun yourself. Especially if you ever used a Magrider which was a long range vehicle. Most boring vehicle to drive for ever since all you did was strafe in the water or stand idle while your driver sniped things.
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