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Old 2012-09-07, 02:54 PM   [Ignore Me] #76
bjorntju1
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by DjEclipse View Post
Good to know I wasn't a victim of my own stupidity thanks for posting that.
Also purchased it, but for me it did show up on my credit-card receipt.
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Old 2012-09-07, 02:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #77
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by Sunrock View Post
I disagree with you. That is P2W. Everything that is not play 2 win is Pay 2 win.
Every unlockable weapon in the game is a sidegrade. It might do more damage but shoot slower or have a smaller clip. This one has a huge clip but does less damage. Nothing is going to be better than anything else. And if it is, anyone and everyone can buy it for free through Auraxium. Pay to Win isn't just because you can buy it sooner than someone. Pay to Win is described as an item only obtainable through real money. Nothing but XP and Resource Boosts will be Station Cash only. Do some research before opening your mouth.

Originally Posted by stordito View Post
You have to admit that most of the weapons you are talking about are the unbalanced ones like A2A, A2G... i see a lot of people running for the latest unbalanced weapon added in beta just because allows lots of kills.
most of the players sucks with a mossie but they certed a 12500 Aux rockets cert upgrate anyway. such certification is worth 2-3 days of playtime and right now makes sense only because you are rewarded with bazillion of kills and killstreaks.
just my opinion...
There are plenty of things in the beta that are imbalanced or broken. Balancing comes after making sure the game works on a consistent basis...Which right now it doesn't. Let's make the game function properly before worrying about balance.

Originally Posted by Tatwi View Post
Riiiiight, because a lock on rocket launcher that actually hits the target isn't more powerful than a dumb-fire one that is supremely easy for a tank to dodge. Or how about an aircraft that doesn't have rocket pods or a better cannon compared to one that does?
Planetside 1. Striker vs. Decimator. Argument null.

As for things being better than standard through certs....I heard that the Heavy Assault weapons in Planetside 1 were better than the Suppressor you spawned with after you died. You had to cert into them to use them though, and if you didn't...Other people could have a better gun than you. They should have made it so everyone spawns with the heavy assault weapons!

Right? That's your argument after all...
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Last edited by PhoenixDog; 2012-09-07 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 2012-09-07, 03:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #78
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by PhoenixDog View Post
Every unlockable weapon in the game is a sidegrade. It might do more damage but shoot slower or have a smaller clip. This one has a huge clip but does less damage. Nothing is going to be better than anything else. And if it is, anyone and everyone can buy it for free through Auraxium. Pay to Win isn't just because you can buy it sooner than someone. Pay to Win is described as an item only obtainable through real money. Nothing but XP and Resource Boosts will be Station Cash only. Do some research before opening your mouth.


There are plenty of things in the beta that are imbalanced or broken. Balancing comes after making sure the game works on a consistent basis...Which right now it doesn't. Let's make the game function properly before worrying about balance.



Planetside 1. Striker vs. Decimator. Argument null.

As for things being better than standard through certs....I heard that the Heavy Assault weapons in Planetside 1 were better than the Suppressor you spawned with after you died. You had to cert into them to use them though, and if you didn't...Other people could have a better gun than you. They should have made it so everyone spawns with the heavy assault weapons!

Right? That's your argument after all...
While I dont think there is any pay2win present as long as you can unlock the same stuff without paying, there is no way in hell the vehicle weapons can be seen as sidegrades :P

That might be the case if you had the basic versions of the weapons available at start, but in comparison to the basilisk or even empty slot (if talking about fighters), everything on the marketplace is a huge upgrade.

That said, it's not a problem as long as you can get it without paying for it like you can with Auraxium. Sunrocks problem is that he considers that to be pay2win as well, cos theres gonna be that day or two before the free players are able to grind enough auraxium to get said weapons, in comparison to paying players getting them on launch day.
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Old 2012-09-07, 03:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #79
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by PhoenixDog View Post
*snip a bunch of irrelevant things*
I am talking bout the actual lock on rocket launcher in Planetside 2, from hundreds of hours of actual PS2 game play experience. In my experience it is light years better than the default weapon, simply because the rockets are so slow that even at very close range, a tank can move 1 foot after you pulled the trigger and you can miss. With the lock on, you can't miss at close range.

So many times I have missed with the dumb-fire from less than 10 feet, simply because the guy in the tank wanted to start driving, not because he knew I was there. Again, with the lock on, that miss becomes impossible.

Add to this the clear advantage the lock on has at long range, in that tanks can't simply move 1 foot away and avoid the hit, you can't call it anything but an upgrade.

You know, I don't really care much about all of this, but I would like people to be honest about what is happening. It's just not right to say one thing and do another - say it and do it and be proud of it.
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Old 2012-09-07, 03:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #80
CrankyTRex
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by Higby View Post
Your fundamental flawed assumption here is that new weapons are "better". They're not. They're just different.

You're not buying any intrinsic advantage at all. You're just getting access to other playstyles (which you could also get through gameplay!). If we do our balancing correct (and we're not anywhere close to having it balanced yet i'll be the first to admit that) you'll be getting weapons that are "better" only due to situational and personal preference, not due to intrinsic power. Hence, you're not buying power or paying to win.
That depends entirely on what kind of unlocks we're talking about. When we're talking about different weapons that are essentially the same (say an assault rifle) but with varied statistics, then yeah that's just a balancing issue and I don't think it qualifies as P2W.

The concern is that there are things that are intrinsically more valuable so long as you don't have the choice to use them. Air to Air missiles are a good example of this. They are a stark advantage over any pilot that does not have them.

Now, just being advantageous does not necessarily make them intrinsically better. For example, if every pilot had access to an AtA missile and an AtG missile, and they had to choose which one they wanted, then we're talking about a play-style choice. The AtA missiles are still a significant advantage in the air, but the player decided to give that up for something else.

But unfortunately that is not the choice in front of the player right now. The player's choice is instead wait to earn the AtA missile, and be at a significant disadvantage in the air, or pay to gain that advantage immediately, and that's where it becomes Pay 2 Win instead of a mere play-style choice.
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Old 2012-09-07, 03:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #81
PhoenixDog
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by Coreldan View Post
*Snip*
Originally Posted by Tatwi View Post
*Snip*
I agree with both of you in what you're saying. Some of the default things are pretty crap compared to the upgraded materials (ie. ESF's). However, hopefully we see things get balanced somewhat. I'd love to see ESF's get by default the machine gun it has now as well as a basic rocket system. The the upgrades are full hellfire rockets, or A2A, or whatever. Perhaps when talking about the Rockets for HA, the lock on upgrade will have a drop off in damage where as the dumbfire does much more? Balance changes are still to come. Some are not guaranteed...But hopefully there is a happy medium between both the defaults and the upgrades. The upgrades should be better in a way...But better in terms of making life easier..Not necessarily doing everything better.
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Click here to go to the next VIP post in this thread.   Old 2012-09-07, 03:40 PM   [Ignore Me] #82
Higby
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by Tatwi View Post
I am talking bout the actual lock on rocket launcher in Planetside 2, from hundreds of hours of actual PS2 game play experience. In my experience it is light years better than the default weapon, simply because the rockets are so slow that even at very close range, a tank can move 1 foot after you pulled the trigger and you can miss. With the lock on, you can't miss at close range.

So many times I have missed with the dumb-fire from less than 10 feet, simply because the guy in the tank wanted to start driving, not because he knew I was there. Again, with the lock on, that miss becomes impossible.

Add to this the clear advantage the lock on has at long range, in that tanks can't simply move 1 foot away and avoid the hit, you can't call it anything but an upgrade.
I said in no uncertain terms that we're not done balancing yet. Dumbfire rockets aren't presently good enough to make up for their lack of lock-on, but we're building in more trade offs to bring all of these things in line. Dumbfire rockets should be faster on the current build, and we'll continue to tweak them to be more viable.

No, players won't have access to everything by default.

Yes, if you have an empty slot on a vehicle or infantry loadout you will be less effective until you fill that slot.

Once you have all your slots loaded out though, our goal is to make it a matter of side-grades with real trade offs rather than net power gain. Exceptions are things like grenades, med kits, things that give straight up power advantages and are only available via resources. Vehicles as well are paid for with resources, that's part of their balancing - they're not free to mobilize.
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Old 2012-09-07, 03:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #83
Tatwi
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by Higby View Post
I said in no uncertain terms that we're not done balancing yet. Dumbfire rockets aren't presently good enough to make up for their lack of lock-on, but we're building in more trade offs to bring all of these things in line. Dumbfire rockets should be faster on the current build, and we'll continue to tweak them to be more viable.

No, players won't have access to everything by default.

Yes, if you have an empty slot on a vehicle or infantry loadout you will be less effective until you fill that slot.

Once you have all your slots loaded out though, our goal is to make it a matter of side-grades with real trade offs rather than net power gain. Exceptions are things like grenades, med kits, things that give straight up power advantages and are only available via resources. Vehicles as well are paid for with resources, that's part of their balancing - they're not free to mobilize.
You're a good person, Higby. Thanks for your time.
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Old 2012-09-07, 04:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #84
sameer
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Re: SOE announces Alpha Squad


Not interested at all. I will take a second look in december.
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Old 2012-09-07, 05:24 PM   [Ignore Me] #85
JawsOfLife
Sergeant
 
Re: SOE announces Alpha Squad


In case it hasn't been mentioned yet,

Smed just Tweeted this:
"Why do we have a December 31st 2012 date up there? Is that the launch date? - No. It's not. It's launching when beta is over. We don't know when that will be. But we have to put a date up there for the lawyers to be happy. We've always said we were launching this year. If we make the game we're proud to release and beta is great then yes? When will that be exactly? When the game kicks ass."
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Old 2012-09-07, 05:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #86
Taru
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Re: SOE announces Alpha Squad


$40 for $40 worth of station cash plus some other Planetside 2 goodies? I'm sold. Let the "Shut up and take my money!" begin.
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Old 2012-09-07, 05:37 PM   [Ignore Me] #87
Baneblade
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by Galron View Post
I was about to drop some cash on this right now, the only thing holding me back was I didn't want to get this version if there were different tiered versions of this.
There's no reason for them to wait to add the other tiers, so it is reasonable to assume there is only one.

Now, that is not to say there will not be a collector's edition when release hits that gives its own special bonuses separate from alpha squad.
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Old 2012-09-07, 06:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #88
RobUK
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Re: SOE announces Alpha Squad


I really hope that this Alpha Squad offer stays open for a few weeks yet, I so want this, but I can't really justify paying for it yet (well I daren't actually face the increasing wrath of the Wife if I'm honest!)

It's two weeks since payday, and two weeks to next payday, so now's a bad time. I've just bought a new Motherboard and RAM and am about to splash out on an i5 2500K CPU just so that I can play Planetside 2 with better framerates and (hopefully) a lot less CTD's with more RAM and a 64bit O.S.

If I dip into our savings I'll be having tongue pie for dinner for the next month

I hope it's still available in 2 weeks time or I will
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Old 2012-09-07, 06:46 PM   [Ignore Me] #89
Bags
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Re: Beta access with alpha squad


Originally Posted by Tatwi View Post
Riiiiight, because a lock on rocket launcher that actually hits the target isn't more powerful than a dumb-fire one that is supremely easy for a tank to dodge. Or how about an aircraft that doesn't have rocket pods or a better cannon compared to one that does?
Here are the weapons

Assault Rifle - Fast rate or fire allows it to output a large of amount of damage in a short period of time, making it very effective at short to medium ranges.
NCGR-22
TRCycler TRV
VSH-V45
Carbine - Balanced weight and controllable recoil allows the operator to maintain accuracy over automatic fire.
NCAC-X11
TRT5
VSPulsar C
LMG - Features three fire modes, allowing it to easily adapt to most situations on the battlefield.
NCEM6 LMG
TRTMG-50 B
VSSVA-88
Sniper - Highly accurate and damaging at long range.
NCLA80
TRSR-7
VSV10

You don't get an RPG...
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Old 2012-09-07, 08:11 PM   [Ignore Me] #90
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Re: SOE announces Alpha Squad


So I guess beta invites are over. Everyone else is gonna have to pay to get in the beta. Yay...
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