Anyone have stats(or emperical tests for) the effects of weapon upgrades?

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-18, 02:20 PM

Im curious what exactly the effect of lasers and advanced lasers is on COF.

What exactly do soft point and high velocity ammo do.

What exactly are the penalties for a suppressor.

etc

Wahooo · 2012-12-19, 03:49 AM

I'd like to know as well. So far the compensator and the forward grip have almost not noticeable difference on any of the faction's LMGs. I do notice a difference with the laser sight and hip firing COF on the NS-11 but haven't put it on anything else.

I put softpoint on everything I can... but have no idea if it helps

Sturmhardt · 2012-12-19, 04:07 AM

Yeah, I would also like to know what exactly the soft point ammo does, I'm not sure if I should use it.

Wahooo · 2012-12-19, 04:09 AM

My assumption of the softpoint is that it should be enough added damage to make up for the nerf from the default weapon to the weapon you can put it on... ie CARV to CARV-S lose some accuracy and ROF... soft point adds just enough damage to make the TTK the same for both? Maybe?

Dkamanus · 2012-12-19, 08:43 AM

For a little test we did, it seems that Soft point ammo has a sweet spot of shooting. It could have been the suppressor I use (Yes, LAs should by suppressors instead of flash suppressors for sneaking). From what I see, at a set distance, the damage increases, but once you leave that distance, closer or longer, it diminishes.

Its a quite confusion ammunition, same for High Velocity Ammo. Tested with and without. The effect is the same. Withand without suppressor on. The effect is just the fucking same. Its quite dishearting to spend 100 certs on a certification that MIGHT help you, even though you have no real numbers to work on.

Bocheezu · 2012-12-19, 11:22 AM

From the datasheet notes:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...r=false&gid=13

High Velocity Ammunition - HVA increases bullet velocity by an unknown value as well as increasing vertical recoil by 6%-12% and extends the range a weapon reaches it's minimum damage value at by 10m.

Soft Point Ammunition - SPA decreases bullet velocity by an unknown value, as well as extending the initial damage dropoff range for the weapon to 15m instead of 10m and reducing minimum damage by 1 tier (167 → 143, 143 → 125, 125 → 112, 112 → 100, 100 → 91).

If you read the notes there, it basically works like this.

On the datasheet for each weapon, there is a max damage, a max damage distance, a minimum damage, and a minimum damage distance

You do max damage in the range from 0 --> max damage distance
from max damage distance --> min damage distance it's a linear dropoff in damage
from min damage distance --> infinity (max render distance) it does the minimum damage

So let's look at one weapon, the basic T9 Carv. Here are its stats --

Max Damage: 143
Max Damage Distance: 10m
Min Damage: 125
Min Damage Distance: 65m

-- So HVA would extend that min damage distance out to 75m. I assume this also changes the linear damage dropoff (the damage in the range between max damage distance and min damage distance) from (143-125)/(65-10) = 0.327 damage/m to (143-125)/(75-10) = 0.277 damage/m

A key point here is that beyond 75m, it doesn't do anything except reduce bullet drop and increase your recoil.

-- SPA pushes the maximum damage distance out to 15m but reduces the minimum damage by one tier, in this case from 125 to 112. The minimum damage distance stays the same. I assume the linear damage dropoff is, once again, changed as well.

Probably a good idea would be to compare the damage at certain ranges for each case. I'm not good at formatting this sort of stuff, but let's calculate the damage at intervals of 5m, starting from 10m (STA = standard)

Range: 10 - 15 - 20 - 25 - 30 - 35 - 40 - 45 - 50 - 55 - 60 - 65 - 70 - 75
STA: 143.0 - 141.4 - 139.7 - 138.1 - 136.5 - 134.8 - 133.2 - 131.5 - 129.9 - 128.3 - 126.6 - 125.0 - 125.0 - 125.0
HVA: 143.0 - 141.6 - 140.2 - 138.8 - 137.5 - 136.1 - 134.7 - 133.3 - 131.9 - 130.5 - 129.2 - 127.8 - 126.4 - 125.0
SPA: 143.0 - 143.0 - 139.9 - 136.8 - 133.7 - 130.6 - 127.5 - 124.4 - 121.3 - 118.2 - 115.1 - 112.0 - 112.0 - 112.0

I'm sure some spreadsheet wizard could make a bunch of tables and graphs and make it look all pretty, but I'm not going to do that.

So, if all my assumptions are true, SPA is only an improvement at 10-20m and HVA is good from 20m out. I would love to know exactly how far 20m is to gauge when I should use the different ammos, though.

Sturmhardt · 2012-12-19, 12:23 PM

Thanks Bocheezu, now I understand how that stuff above is meant. I will get soft point ammo for my close range light assault guy then

AThreatToYou · 2012-12-19, 02:43 PM

HVA seems completely worthless, because I don't know how far a meter is for in-game units. We desperately need some sort of range-finder IMO.

Stanis · 2012-12-20, 06:28 AM

That's interesting.

With the exception of 10 to 20m High Velocity Ammo does more damage at every range
The difference at that range is minimal.

If you can manage the increased recoil then HVA.
Otherwise I won't bother.

Ghoest9 · 2012-12-20, 07:16 AM

I suspect that either soft point data is presented wrong in the data sheets or that you are misunderstanding it. probably for the HVA too.

Zoraida · 2012-12-20, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

HVA seems completely worthless, because I don't know how far a meter is for in-game units. We desperately need some sort of range-finder IMO.

Squad/Personal beacon should work well enough for testing purposes right?

Juryrig · 2012-12-20, 08:18 AM

Drop a waypoint on the minimap, it'll tell you exact distance in metres.

Sirisian · 2012-12-20, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

What exactly are the penalties for a suppressor.

Depends on the gun if it's noticeable, but never put a silencer on a sniper rifle. The bullet drop increases drastically to the point that it makes the gun pointless at range.

Bocheezu · 2012-12-20, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

I suspect that either soft point data is presented wrong in the data sheets or that you are misunderstanding it. probably for the HVA too.

The change in the linear damage dropoff for either SPA or HVA is just a wild ass guess. I literally have no idea if that is how it really works or not.

People have to realize those damage numbers (the 143 and 125) are what they are for a very specific reason: that's the amount of damage it takes to kill a non-infil non-nanoweave (500 shields + 500 health) player in a certain number of shots.

167 damage per shot --> 6 shots
143 --> 7 shots
125 --> 8 shots
112 --> 9 shots
100 --> 10 shots
91 --> 11 shots

So having SPA extend the 143 damage out to 15m just means you have 5 extra meters to 7-shot a guy. Once you have the slightest bit of dropoff from that 143, it will take 8 shots to kill a guy until you get to 125. In the case of SPA, I calculate that to happen at 45m compared to the 65m of standard.

Now, in the case of HVA, the extra fractional damage only helps you when nanoweave is involved.

Rank 1 nanoweave: 500 shields + 550 health = 1050 total

6 shots --> 175.0 damage required
7 shots --> 150.0
8 shots --> 131.3
9 shots --> 116.7

So with HVA you could kill a motionless rank 1 nanoweave in 8 shots out to 50.4m, while standard can only 8-shot a rank 1 nanoweave out to 44.3m. So in that small range of 6.1m, standard would require one more shot than HVA. Let's look at other ranks of nanoweave.

rank 2 nanoweave: 500 shields + 562 health = 1062 total

6 shots --> 177.0 damage required
7 shots --> 152.8
8 shots --> 132.8
9 shots --> 118.0

In this case, HVA extends the 8-shot range from 41.2m to 46.8m. The distance has gotten shorter while the effective range of HVA is less (only effective in a 5.6m window now).

If we warp ahead to rank 5 --

rank 5 nanoweave: 500 shields + 625 health = 1125 total

6 shots --> 187.5 damage required
7 shots --> 160.8
8 shots --> 140.7
9 shots --> 125.0

HVA extends the 8-shot range from 17.1m to 18.3m. Basically useless for this weapon, the T9 Carv. Weapons with higher damage could see more use out of HVA. Will have to recalculate.

Bocheezu · 2012-12-20, 01:52 PM

OK, let's re-do those HVA numbers for a high-damage weapon: the NC6 Guass Saw. This weapon has these stats:

Max Damage: 200 (5 shots to kill non-infil, non-nanoweave)
Max Damage Distance: 10m
Min Damage: 167 (6 shots to kill non-infil, non-nanoweave)
Min Damage Distance: 85m (20 meters longer than the T9 Carv)

In this case, HVA extends the minimum damage distance out to 95 meters.

rank 1 nanoweave: 1050 total

5 shots --> 210.0 damage required
6 shots --> 175.0
7 shots --> 150.0

HVA extends the 6-shot range from 66.8m to 74.4m, a 7.6m window (about a 11.4% improvement in 6-shot range).

Rank 5 nanoweave: 1125

5 shots --> 225.0 damage required
6 shots --> 187.5
7 shots --> 160.8

HVA extends the 6-shot range from 38.4m to 42.2m, a 3.8m window (almost a 10% improvement in 6-shot range).

It's not completely terrible, I guess.