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Old 2013-06-23, 06:36 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Jonny
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Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Currently I and many other players find that long periods of Planetside 2 involves waiting around for a base to be captured, once a medium/large force has easily swamped the capture point. During this time, the attackers spawn camp the defenders. Why this is a feature of the game I will never understand, but I'm proposing some ideas to get rid of the boring wait and earn a base with a real tug of war fight to/from the SCU.

The key idea of this plan is that the SCU is the main objective. It is destroyed by a good amount of actual gun fire, and once destroyed prevents the defenders from spawning at the base.

Several smaller objectives (ie generators) allow progress for the attackers. Vehicle shield generators still scatter the base, and a generator in the underground infantry part of the base disrupts defenders when destroyed and downs shields that protect the SCU which sits in a room behind the spawn.

Annotated Layout:



First room showing corridors to balconies and vehicle spawn platform:


Defenders platform showing stairs/route under to generator. Once attackers destroy the gen, defenders cannot flank via fast travel tubes to the side. Other fast travel tubes to base outside still work. Shields to SCU go down.


Last defensive platform. Glass blocks fire to SCU and spawn room window.


Another view. Defenders drop down from spawn in corridors to the left/right.


View from inside SCU room looking back. You can see glass wall blocking fire from underpassage, glass window to last defensive platform, and corridor entrances.



Excuse the crappy modeling and missing areas. Nothing is set in stone, this is just to get some ideas out there. Thanks for reading!!
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Old 2013-06-23, 06:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
camycamera
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Soe. Put this in the game right naow.
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Old 2013-06-23, 07:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
typhaon
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


I'm all for more interesting base design with more things to do... so I'm not against what you proposed.

During prime hours, that might offer more interesting base fights.

Outside of prime hours - larger populations generally swarm base to base. Remove the waiting and you'll just see continents conquered in a flash. So... either your design will allow them to conquer bases faster, thus resulting in quick domination - or it will just involve people walking around shooting at undefended generators. I don't think that's big gameplay step up from standing around waiting for timers.
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Old 2013-06-23, 07:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #4
Crator
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Something like this should have always been planned for PS2. An indoor infantry fight to the finish (destroying spawns and eliminating the enemy in the tubes).
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Old 2013-06-23, 07:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #5
Carbon Copied
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Took me awhile to get my head around it but I'm there now (coffee needed ) - I like the idea of the SCU behind the spawn point but it looks like one big choke point. The fast tunnels don't really alleviate the problem (both currently and in this design) as they look to still be camped by a couple of people and effectively made redundant. Equally with one entrance to the "main room" this is easily locked into a stalemate by the defenders camping it (unless I'm reading it wrong?).
To my eyes it looks a little too linear and needs pushing out more to the sides.
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Old 2013-06-23, 08:52 AM   [Ignore Me] #6
MrMak
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


A much as I would like Amp Stations and Tech plants to have underground sections (Biolabs are fine as they are, small urban infantry arenas) the problem owf waiting out the Cap can be fixed quite simply without major base redesigns.


The SCU locations in Tech Plants and AMP stations should be better fortified. The AMP station one could simply have more cover added for the defenders and perhaps make the entrance where the big SCU shield smaller. 2 or 3 smaller doorways instead of a big gaping hole where vehicles can shoot down. Perhaps expand the room creating a uper level accessible from the current room (put a lift or staircase where the SCU is now?) and put the SCU on that upperlevel.

The Tech plant would probably need something more extnsive as I cant think of a way to make that little buildign defensible. The area aroudn it however can be modified and it seems to be going to b made into a n infantry centric urban area with the changes to Esamir bases we saw some time ago so il lreserve judgement on that.

The Biolab SCU seems fine. It jsut needs a mechanic that prevents it from being exposed by a sningle ghost caper.

No after the SCUs become suficiently more defensible they should be made to shut down the spawn room shields and painfields and slow down respawns isntead of stopign thme outright. The Spawntubes woudl become destoryable, perhaps a few more owuld have to be instaled on the uper level. The uper level would also house the Base's mainframe. That would be hacked just like a generator albietl onger and giving a visible and audiable alert when someoen atempts it, This would bring down the base's firewalls entirely thus causing an extremaly fast cap to whoever controls the majority of the control points.


A similar mechanic oculd be intorduced to smaller bases. SCUs can be reintroduced to those using the AMP station and Tech plant method of bringing down the shields.
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Old 2013-06-23, 09:03 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
omega four
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


I think the whole base-capture mechanic with waiting period is flawed to begin with. While I can understand why SOE used it (to provide the defenders a chance to counterattack), the actuality is that defenders are incapable of counterattacking at that point for a number of reasons (insufficient defenders at that base, low population levels for the continent, etc.). As a result, a boring wait ensues where the attackers pound the spawn area in which defenders huddle until they're thrown out by pain fields.

SOE should implement a mechanic where control of the base reverts quickly to the attackers as soon as they capture all the points. Of course, the number of control points needs to be increased from its 3 or 4 points to 6 to 8 points. This will lead to quick, intense firefights over the control of points as both sides come close to controlling all the points.

Otherwise, we will be left with the current state of a boring interminable wait to capture the base, during which time many gamers (including myself) go to get something to eat or visit the bathroom....
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Old 2013-06-23, 09:18 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
Jonny
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Originally Posted by Carbon Copied View Post
Took me awhile to get my head around it but I'm there now (coffee needed ) - I like the idea of the SCU behind the spawn point but it looks like one big choke point. The fast tunnels don't really alleviate the problem (both currently and in this design) as they look to still be camped by a couple of people and effectively made redundant. Equally with one entrance to the "main room" this is easily locked into a stalemate by the defenders camping it (unless I'm reading it wrong?).
To my eyes it looks a little too linear and needs pushing out more to the sides.
Thanks for taking a look! Na the model is rough and ideally there would be more flanking routes and coridoors. As I say its not a set in stone "this is how it should be" but more a model of something close to how I see the SCU fight could happen. Not some large orange shield down one set of steps and you're there - with a shed load of vehicles above. (what we have now)

Add extra entrances and ideas to alleviate spammy chokepoints -but the general idea is large rooms with flanking routes to defensible elevated sections. Once defenders lose them they are pushed back - however defenders have fast travel tubes to other areas of the base so they can flank attackers, or they can push back through the rooms.

However it's done I like the idea of the fight becoming more intense and concentrated as it nears the SCU. Little objectives attackers can take will help them advance. A capture point near the start could down shields to the initial entrances when taken, and it would need min 3 players to start capturing... or it could have a fast maximum cap speed of up to 12 people needed to be nearby. (trying to prevent one or two people capping the base on their own here)
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Old 2013-06-23, 11:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
Binkley
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Your ideas might work well in situations where attackers arrive at a base full of defenders. However, it is often the case that they arrive to find an empty base. The idea behind the waiting in the current game play is to allow defenders time to:
A) notice that the base is being attacked
B) organize a response
C) travel to the base under attack
D) arrive with enough time left to actually defend it

Waiting around for a base to cap is boring, I agree, but I'm not sure how to avoid that and still offer a chance for the owning faction to mount a defense.
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Old 2013-06-23, 12:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
MrMak
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Originally Posted by Binkley View Post
Your ideas might work well in situations where attackers arrive at a base full of defenders. However, it is often the case that they arrive to find an empty base. The idea behind the waiting in the current game play is to allow defenders time to:
A) notice that the base is being attacked
B) organize a response
C) travel to the base under attack
D) arrive with enough time left to actually defend it

Waiting around for a base to cap is boring, I agree, but I'm not sure how to avoid that and still offer a chance for the owning faction to mount a defense.
Like I wrote in my previosu post. The best compromise is probably to force the attackers to wait till the owner influence is drained before opening up the" quick win" objective. The current system in the AMP stations and Tech plants partialy does thatbut you still have to wait after dealing with the SCU.
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Old 2013-06-23, 12:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Ghoest9
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


I think your trying to make a big deal out of nothing.

The waits are not very long anymore(if their are no defenders.) The few minutes they do last give the enemy breif chance to counter attack if they want.
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Old 2013-06-23, 01:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
AThreatToYou
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


I like the effort you put into this, but unfortunately such classy design is beyond the devs.

[yep i had to be a jerk about it]
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Old 2013-06-23, 01:06 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
omega four
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


I disagree. The larger bases have wait times of over 6 minutes.

While it's not as long as it used to be, even 6 minutes of wait time can be insufferable and boring in a game when the defenders don't counterattack at all.

Originally Posted by Ghoest9 View Post
I think your trying to make a big deal out of nothing.

The waits are not very long anymore(if their are no defenders.) The few minutes they do last give the enemy breif chance to counter attack if they want.
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Old 2013-06-23, 02:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
Jonny
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Originally Posted by Binkley View Post
Your ideas might work well in situations where attackers arrive at a base full of defenders. However, it is often the case that they arrive to find an empty base. The idea behind the waiting in the current game play is to allow defenders time to:
A) notice that the base is being attacked
B) organize a response
C) travel to the base under attack
D) arrive with enough time left to actually defend it

Waiting around for a base to cap is boring, I agree, but I'm not sure how to avoid that and still offer a chance for the owning faction to mount a defense.
Easy fix - as I started mentioning in my second post, you could have a capture point that needs to be captured before this whole SCU attack process starts. A warning could go off on the minimap prompting defenders to spawn. This way more of a fight occurs.

Also I think spawn camping in this game is far from a small issue. It makes it so boring where there could be cool attack/defense gameplay and flow.
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Old 2013-06-23, 07:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
Rivenshield
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Re: Ideas on base flow and making base FIGHTS, not base WAITS.


Originally Posted by typhaon View Post
Outside of prime hours - larger populations generally swarm base to base. Remove the waiting and you'll just see continents conquered in a flash.
There'a an easy answer for that, and it's called DEFENSIBLE FREAKING BASES.

At any rate, I'm for anything that gets rid of the camp-the-spawn-outhouse for however long dynamic. 'Insufferably boring' is right. It's also a demeaning morale-sapper for the defenders. Multiple destructible spawns, anybody...?
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Last edited by Rivenshield; 2013-06-23 at 07:32 PM.
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