Inventory Management - Page 3

DviddLeff · 2011-07-02, 05:07 AM

Sorry it would of course be more work than just shortening or lengthening weapon images for the inventory.

Take my version of agile:

This would be Rexo:

Edit: Updated images

CutterJohn · 2011-07-02, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Aractain

Actually since Planetside 1 uses holsters (on your back and belt), if there is no holster you cannot carry it (because you couldn't use anything else and thus would be dumb).

It does make sense to me.

No, it just uses the magic glue to the back because slings are a huge pain to model and animate correctly, which is why nobody does it.

Dvidleff, what actual purpose does limiting the weapons agile can carry serve? the rexo i approve of.. Promotes specialization instead of HA/AV supersoldiering. But I don't get why agile shouldn't have access to those weapons. Wheres the logic?

DviddLeff · 2011-07-02, 06:01 AM

As it is Agile is used by vehicle drivers and aircraft pilots; specialised roles already. By restricting the strength of the weapons they can carry gives them a slight disadvantage; to their versatility as well as simply not being the best at at any infantry role - they sacrificed it to be able to use a vehicle.

This reduces the effectiveness of using offensive vehicles and especially combat aircraft to simply bypass the outdoor fight, in turn encouraging the use of transport vehicles that can carry Rexo and MAX armour and helping in some way to move the fight away from bases and out into the world.

With this change I would make Rexo free to all to compensate (although I would remove BR20-40).

However I would go further than this in my project: I would give Agile and current Standard a set role: Standard would be the only suit that can drive enclosed vehicles and Agile would be equipped with jump jets (about half strength of VS MAX) and cost 3 points. Agile would still be limited to the smaller weapons, relying on speed and surprise to fight having to use hit and run tactics to be effective against any decent force consisting of Rexo or MAX armours.

These changes give every armour a very specific role:

Standard: Drivers/Pilots
Infil: Stealth
Agile: Fast assault
Rexo: Versatile infantry
MAX: Holding the line

CutterJohn · 2011-07-02, 09:33 AM

I can concede that pilots might be able to bypass the fight. Drivers of ground vehicles can't pull the same trick.. By they time they exit the vehicle they will just be dead.

Ground transports are a non starter idea. Can and will never be used extensively because combat vehicles are free and in infinite supply. The enemy, seeing as they are defending a base, will not have to pull any of them. Meaning the attackers, unless they grossly outnumber the enemy, cannot afford to have a number of bodies tied up in a single subpar combat vehicle that could instead all be manning 3/4/5 combat vehicles. They need to be in combat vehicles as well if the push is to be successful, and when the CY(or the initial staging area for the base) is secure, they will get out and go fight. Your plan just means they have the additional step of finding the parked AMS first.

Btw, if a driver has to sacrifice soldiering, why doesn't a soldier have to sacrifice to gun? Maybe they should wear standard too.

On the subject of inventory: I'd like belt slots for grenades and whatnot. Maybe medkits(they'd no longer be useable from inventory in this case).

DviddLeff · 2011-07-02, 01:31 PM

Good points John, having gunners wear Standard as well would be fairer and go further to encourage transport use; making transports near vital to get infantry to a target quickly.

The issue of balance between defenders and attackers is an interesting one; as it is combat vehicles are too readily available; timers could be increased as well as cert point cost to encourage more tactical play.

Furret · 2011-07-02, 01:44 PM

Yeah, I've always thought passenger slots were stupid, who would ride in a vehicle when they can get a lightning or mossie and fight for themselves?

I think the fight mechanics need to be changed, so that a Sunderer type vehicle is armored enough to run through a fight, dissuading vehicles with weapons that are light enough to allow quick movement, but powerful enough to force you to back off if you attack alone. These vehicles should fit a full squad, assuming a MAX or two, a lot of REXO's as well as a medic, engie, and hacker. The med/eng/hack would be agile, and would use the guns, while the REXO's sat tight until the Sunderer got to the base, at which point everyone unloads and rushes into the base.

Perhaps, if they use a hardpoint system, a gun could be substituted for a smokescreen that would allow the squad to get into the base without taking too much fire.

Also, I think there should be a much larger emphasis on air superiority. This actually gives the sunderer a real role, since we know there's already going to be a galaxy. If you've lost air superiority, you need to pull a sundy to get a squad or two (or ten

) into their base.

What was the original topic again?

BorisBlade · 2011-07-02, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Dvidleff, what actual purpose does limiting the weapons agile can carry serve? the rexo i approve of.. Promotes specialization instead of HA/AV supersoldiering. But I don't get why agile shouldn't have access to those weapons. Wheres the logic?

First all its based on the current game, but we want it limited so we dont have the retarded situation of the mossie pilot flyin over then bailing out carrying a bazooka or a mini-chaingun. Its absurd. Now if pilots were limited to standard or somethin below agile then it wouldnt matter. I personally would like a "pilot" suit. Less armor than agile, and can only carry the medium weapon size in its slot. But it gives some benefit to your vehicle. Handling/speed/armor or whatever. Could easily come up with some story thing like "the suit has built in nano interface that works with the vehicle to enhance its abilities." You could then leave agile as is.

And gunner slots should be just like passenger slots for armor reqs. The main reason being no one wants to be passive and just riding around. Let em have the gun slots to use. Maxes cant use gun slots, no need to gimp the rexo too. Yes it would make the passenger vehicles get used much more if rexo couldnt gun. But you then also get into the problem of vehicles like the sunderer wouldnt be as good because most slots are gunner slots, you would have a vehicle full of agile to assault a base or tower which isnt that good. It just causes problems with designing vehicles where you have to make the vehicle itself junk for anything but pure transport which as we all know, no one will use. They must serve some offensive role in fighting as well or no one will use them. Its not hard to design, the deliverer before the tank buffs was perfect in that role. Solid armor, decent damage and speed. Just need to find the right mix.

And yeah i know we all get off topic a bit, but everything in the game is so intertwined that changin one thing affects so many others. But thats a sign the game is done right. Its why we all are so passionate about gettin it right with a sequel. =)

DviddLeff · 2011-07-03, 04:09 AM

Perhaps then with the transport vehicles allow anything up to rexo to gun, but for tanks you need standard.

BorisBlade · 2011-07-03, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Perhaps then with the transport vehicles allow anything up to rexo to gun, but for tanks you need standard.

Yeah, always a possiblity. There are plenty of ways around it. But at the same time you dont want it to be too confusing where maybe the gunner seat on a two man reaver cant use rexo, but deli guns can, tanks cant, buggies can, lib guns cant, galaxy can.... it jsut ends up more confusing then its worth. I still have people who dont even know about usin rexo to pilot buggies or who ask if they need agile to get in a gunner slot. I even had a guy the other day ask if he could get in my deli as a max or if he could gun in the sunderer as a max.

I personally like the idea of the deli being faster moving light/medium tanks. With 60% armor of say a vanguard, same 2x 20mm the deli's have now, but significantly faster top speed than they have now. (they currently move the same speed as a magrider who strafe drives.) Boost it to say around 79, with a fix to the mag's strafing speed cheat and a reduction of all tanks by 5kph.

Gives you some good transport with the better speed and water crossing, the armor is decent (only about 10-20% higher than it is currently), and its weapons can fend off air and do some medium ranged attacks on other vehicles. They dont have the high firepower of a tank nor the armor to hold ground and need more people to man em, but can still take them on in the right terrain with solid driving. Thats a transport i would love to use. Lets us have some fun on the way to the fight.

...and im off topic again. =(

CutterJohn · 2011-07-05, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Good points John, having gunners wear Standard as well would be fairer and go further to encourage transport use; making transports near vital to get infantry to a target quickly.

No, it would piss people off due to being an arbitrary restriction with little purpose. And it would still not make transports vital. The simple fact remains, a transport is not a combat vehicle. 6 guys in an APC will lose to 6 guys in tanks. They won't even get behind the lines. The only way you can make ground based transports a viable choice is to heavily nerf combat vehicles, and get rid of AMSs. So long as all the rest of the vehicles exist, and AMSs exist that can respawn you, there will be little or no need for transporting troops on the ground.

The only aspect of the game that was hurt by the agile+HA was mossie/reaver droppers, and then only because they could transition instantly from an excellent AI or AV platform into a grunt in a highly unexpected place that was difficult to get to due to their mobility, while also instantly and perfectly being able to avoid their mortal enemy, the AA platform. That is what may need fixing. Probably by making a flight suit for air, and an unarmed solo transport on another cert that can hold a soldier in good armor. Its never been an issue for ground troops, because when they bail, they.. are right there where whatever was shooting them was. Only now a lot slower and squishier. All ground vehicles could have had rexo drivers with no issue, and almost no change to gameplay.

Checowsky · 2011-07-06, 05:54 AM

Interesting read. My thoughts:

1) Based on Planetside currently the agile suit MA slot would change nothing. The rocklet rifle still exists and so do grenades. Sweeper + nades would equal the same situation we have now. The problem is not HA/AV access.

2) Dvvid: I hope you enjoy being Mossie farmed while repping, as every driver in standard will produce a lot of that. Hell anything will pick them off with ease.

3) HA/AV Super soldiering? Add a wait limit and I'd switch to Rocklet/HA super soldiering. Where there is a will there is a way. Without over hauling everything in the game the natural progression will be strongest AI weapon met with the strongest AV weapon allowed with it. End of. People will choose AI over AV because most of the fighting you do is AI when in Rexo.

Ok right now its MAX suits everywhere but I doubt that will continue when certs are back down to normal levels.

Back on topic: Unless you really go nuts in limiting people to a class based system, which I would hate with all of my being, I don't see how the stuff put here would change anything unless PS2 is vastly different. Limit me to MA/AV? Fine I'll lob nades everywhere says Joe Everyman as he runs around effectively indifferent.

Personally I think the Rexo discussion is a non-issue. AV/HA does not do everything, far from it. It the most useful and common loadout because of Rexos and MAXs being the most common squishy opponent. Seems like a common complain from tank drivers >.>

The great thing about this game is doing whatever you want, choice, limiting that choice isn't great imo.

4) Agile jumpjets? Enjoy the nade spam and millions more troops everywhere? Either way jumpjets seem to be coming so we'll have to see how that works out but I think I can guess: not good.

EDIT: I forgot to add I think the problem at the moment is more about warping and the way movement is handled. I honestly believe that updating beyond DX8 and not being able to instantly change direction will decrease the droppers survivability a lot. I have little issue beating an agile HA user who dropped on my tower with a sweeper as is but this will be a lot easier once they can't instantly change direction and induce warping. The movement system will be a lot better off if they have a slow down effect for changing direction ala CS:S or most other modern day shooters.