Originally Posted by Quovatis
I don't know of any creationist astronomers.
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Mayans, Greeks, Aztecs, Inca, Egyptians, Sumerians, Romans, Carthagians, Catholics certainly (they kinda didn't like Copernicus though, who was still a creationist, probably, considering he was raised Catholic).
Could go on. They were there. Pretty wrong about the actual background of things. But they were there.
@Duke or anyone else willing to have a go at this if they are confident in creation.
Could you please enlighten me why Christian theology and in fact ANY theology for that matter had to spread by sword and mouth if any god is universal, rather than for instance... a local, Jewish concept based partially in Sumerian and other local myths? Note the use of the word local, as in influenced and concepted through local and contemporary, cultural issues.
Please, if for example your god is universal, then logically the religion would be universal as well and could pop up anywhere without any intervention by humans. If not, the religion is not universal and neither is the god.
Considering any god or gods apparently want to have his or their word spread, it would be logical to not have just a single, isolated original preacher considering the chance of spreading is then not only small, it would not be effective or efficient (for an omnipotent deity, a strange choice of medium). And certainly it does not fit with doctrine since every religion claims to be the only truth. Certainly creation only happened once? If there is ONE truth, it has to be possible to find anywhere, because this god or god system would want it to be followed. One might even argue false prophets to be taken out in some of the more aggressive theological cases. This is after all a core feature of every religion: Get followers. Spread. Get more followers. Spread. Till everyone is a follower, whether or not by choice.
Kinda like zombies come to think of it. But I digress.
Either way, one can already conclude that there cannot be multiple truths and if there's an answer, there is only one. In fact, in this light it would also be illogical for any other religions than the one truth to have existed at all. Seeing as there is claim to there only being one truth. Let alone that any existed before the "True" version. Not impossible, but unlikely. However, up to today we still don't have a single religion that has been global and created the same independently. Let alone a universal religion.
I therefore request you to, if not prove the existence of a god directly to at least prove the claim that a religion can be universal. This should be a simple task: a simple, earthly verification. All you need to do is find a global constant. Please demonstrate how random populaces in completely isolated zones across the globe can come up with the
exact same religion (regardless of which one). To the letter. (So no contact with other nations ever, no significant previous version of religion and certainly no internet). Any time period in history will do.
There is only one answer I have seen sofar that solves this challenge. There is one universal constant that, if these isolated cultures are seen as algebraic attempts at answering the god question, answers the challenge: it is the null factor.
The null factor means there is no god, at least none that interacts with humans (hence I consider agnosticism a "fair enough" philosophy). Therefore none of the religions can be correct under the assumption that gods want as many people as possible to follow them, regardless of age, era or culture. As a consequence, one has to conclude that religion is a creation of culture, not culture the result of religious creation.
In fact, the closest thing to a global religion, is various forms of paganism with regards to nature worship. However, even if basic concepts such as tree or anmal worship exist among different pagan religions, none of these are anywhere near the same in culture, stories and traditions. Therefore one can only conclude they (and other religions) are all local and thus must be false and the result of local traditions and morality, old stories, events, fear, hope and above all lacking understanding of nature, events and life.
Granted, I have never seen a creationist of any kind even try and tackle this challenge. Usualy it is avoided completely or if they are fair, it is admitted they can't provide evidence of the contrary. Because there is simply no historical evidence available and the record supports the opposite: religions are interconnected only when in direct and elongated cultural and geographical contact.
(PSU why u no have raised eyebrow emoticon?!?!?)
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