The Oracle of Death

[blib]

Would there be a point comparing things in-faction? I'd like to see how the Vanu Cerberus compares to a Vanu player with the NS Comissioner or Underboss. And the Manticore vs. Cerberus?

Also how does the Striker effect Liberators? Does the TR Zepher have more kpu than other factions, because they don't have to run away or die to lock-ons as much? How about Dalton, do strikers protect their libs more, allowing them to kill more than the VS or NC?

Very interesting, thanks for doing this.

[AnuErebus]

Originally Posted by Fulmir

Any chance this whole thing could come with a disclaimer about abuse of stats?

Would probably be a good idea. Especially since this doesn't seem to take into account kills per death or anything of the like. These stats really just show how popular a certain weapon is and how many kills people get with that weapon on average over a certain time frame.

If the Oracle has time, I'd be curious how the use of various SMGs compares to one another. And Sniper Rifles (Bolt and Semi-Auto) if two sets of data isn't too much to ask.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Fulmir

Any chance this whole thing could come with a disclaimer about abuse of stats?

Heh, as Maradine wrote in a previous post* people really shouldn't take the stats at face value. Shouldn't have to disclaimer that, and I also don't think it would matter much. No matter what some people are going to use these stats to promote their own agenda


*"Regardless, as long as everyone understands that these are only reflections of truth, and not truth itself, I think we'll be OK."

[GS Ourous]

Oracle of Death, any chance I could get the per-hour data for MBT's and Lightnings?

[Binge]

*edit* now i saw you already answered this. look below my original question *edit*

Oracle of Death, i just made an account to ask for a small favor.

Alot of the weapons we know are pretty good like the Orion lmg is not performing KPU as good as the others because they are used by all the br1-10s and so on. Could we get some data grouped by BR rank, 1-25 26-50 51-75 76-100? Or atleast 1-50 51-100. I'm sure we would see great differences in all these datapoints. Specially default LMG/carbines/snipers and MBT/ESF.

*edit* you wouldnt need to make one call per character to get their br would you? is there no way to get all users online and then ask for those beforehand, store locally and just do that once every day? but yea guess its starting to sound like work.

[Larington]

I suddenly feel justified in my use of the Polaris. I feel in good company with... Wait I've been using the SVA-88 recently as I Auraxiumed my Polaris.

[a nOOb too]

Frag grenades please.

(control group)

[rigsta]

Thanks for this, interesting stuff

I'd like to see how the SMGs measure up.

Small-mag SMGs: Armistice v Cyclone v Eridani
Large-mag SMGs: Hailstorm v Blitz v Sirius

And the NS-7 PDW.

EDIT: Frags v stickies would be cool to see

[torokf]

Thanks for the Great work Maradine, this is an amazing thread and source of statistics

[maradine]

Lots of mail to get through - will be dumping shit as edits into here.

Originally Posted by Fulmir

Any chance this whole thing could come with a disclaimer about abuse of stats?

The Vortex/Raven/Fracture thing is a pretty good example, if you look at the PS2-stats data on those weapons it's pretty clear that the Vortex isn't used very much. If you look at the vehicle kills per use-time though it beats out both the Fracture and the Raven.

This would suggest that the issue is less with the Vortex and more with people's opinion of it.

I'm actually not seeing it your way. A quick, back of the envelope run on ps2-stats numbers as described (only doing one arm each):

Fracture 91030 kills 8546 play time 10.65 kph
Raven 35553 kills 4393 play time 8.09 kph
Vortex 19654 kills 3202 play time 6.13 kph

Am I missing something you're getting at? I'd say that's a decent argument in favor of the validity of effect/popularity=~effectiveness, regardless of which metric you use to measure popularity.

Re: abuse: I'll say it again. People can draw whatever they want from this. I don't claim to be able to account for all variables seen and unseen - only to apply the Law of Large Numbers and hope it all smooths out.

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

I say I say, this IS an interesting thread. Most of the good stuff has been covered so far.

It's not gonna be for balance purposes but for fun: O Great Oracle of Death, show me which faction stabs the most people on an average day.
(Give separate data MAX slaps for xtra kudos)

World of Knives: coming up!

id 1 Mag-Cutter
41,075 Kills
11,449 Unique Killers
3.59 kpu

id 13 Chainblade
40,487 Kills
11,319 Unique Killers
3.58 kpu

id 19 Force-Blade
42,609 Kills
11,621 Unique Killers
3.67 kpu

id 1082 MAX Punch - Cargo Loader
2,520 Kills
1,601 Unique Killers
1.57 kpu

id 1083 MAX Punch - Wannabe Terminator
2,430 Kills
1,480 Unique Killers
1.64 kpu

id 1084 MAX Punch - Space Lobster
4,028 Kills
1,923 Unique Killers
2.09 kpu

Next:

Originally Posted by blib

Would there be a point comparing things in-faction? I'd like to see how the Vanu Cerberus compares to a Vanu player with the NS Comissioner or Underboss. And the Manticore vs. Cerberus?

Also how does the Striker effect Liberators? Does the TR Zepher have more kpu than other factions, because they don't have to run away or die to lock-ons as much? How about Dalton, do strikers protect their libs more, allowing them to kill more than the VS or NC?

I'll do a big bad pistols spreadsheet like I did for the LMGs at some point. NS infantry weapons can't be compared cross-faction, sadly, as they all have the same weapon_id. Well, not immediately. When I figure out the BR joins, I can probably get faction, too. The Lib question is interesting - let's take a look:

id 5224 Dalton - VS 
20555 Kills
1524 Unique Killers
13.49 kpu

id 5225 Dalton - NC
15644 Kills
1379 Unique Killers
11.34 kpu

id 5226 Dalton - TR
24322 Kills
1655 Unique Killers
14.70 kpu

id 5227 Zephyr - VS
7779 Kills
945 Unique Killers
8.23 kpu

id 5228 Zephyr - NC
6298 Kills
788 Unique Killers
7.99 kpu

id 5229 Zephyr - TR
10595 Kills
1152 Unique Killers
9.20 kpu

I think that's an unqualified "maybe". TR could be better pilots or gunners. VS/NC AA could be scrubs. NC could be drunk behind the stick. Or all of those things, plus the Striker.

Originally Posted by AnuErebus

Would probably be a good idea. Especially since this doesn't seem to take into account kills per death or anything of the like. These stats really just show how popular a certain weapon is and how many kills people get with that weapon on average over a certain time frame.

If the Oracle has time, I'd be curious how the use of various SMGs compares to one another. And Sniper Rifles (Bolt and Semi-Auto) if two sets of data isn't too much to ask.

It's not, but I may not get to it today. Promised the woman I'd spend a day not being a nerd. Well, not this specific nerd - there's also the household Civ5 game, Galaxy Trucker Day, washing das Auto, eating, and all that other crap. Oh - I also need to finish the damn oracle so I don't have to hang out in here pressing buttons. =D But there's good news - I ran the high-end bolt actions a few pages back (spoiler alert: identical weapons with almost identical kpus).

re: deaths - I don't think they're particularly meaningful in the context of infinite revives and infinite respawns. If I come across a way to include them, I will, however.

Here's some SMG love:

id 7494, 7495, 7496 All NS-7s Everywhere
224,223 Kills
7,767 Unique Killers
28.87 kpu

id 27000 AF-4 Cyclone
73,966 Kills
3,215 Unique Killers
23.00 kpu

id 27001 Blitz GD-10
109,041 Kills
4,404 Unique Killers
24.76 kpu

id 28000 SMG-56 Armistace
48,709 Kills
2,487 Unique Killers
19.59 kpu

id 28001 PDW-16 Hailstorm
78,336 Kills
4,048 Unique Killers
19.35 kpu

id 29000 Eridani SX5
28,947 Kills
1,800 Unique Killers
16.08 kpu

id 29001 Sirius SX12
125,416 Kills
4,899 Unique Killers
25.60 kpu

Originally Posted by GS Ourous

Oracle of Death, any chance I could get the per-hour data for MBT's and Lightnings?

I ran 48 hours of MBT data earlier in the thread. I'll refresh it and add the Lightning stuff in a big spreadsheet tonight or tomorrow.

OK, last one - my coffee's getting cold.

Originally Posted by a nOOb too

Frag grenades please.

(control group)

Exquisite. There is truth in little bundles of explosives with pull pins. But . . which frags?



A little research shows that only three of these have any kill data associated with them in the last week - I think those are our boys. And, as you predicted:

id 44505 - NC Frag
46665 Kills
15935 Unique Killers
2.93 kpu

id 44605 - TR Frag
50209 Kills
16.271 Unique Killers
3.09 kpu

id 44705 - VS Frag
46105 Kills
15278 Unique Killers
3.01 kpu

An excellent control.

I'm off like a prom dress. But, in my absence, the Oracle toils tirelessly. She sees. Every. Death.

[Storm Frog]

Oracle of Death, I'm very curious to see how the SABR-13 compares to other long range guns. It's a little known fact that the SABR has the lowest first shot recoil multiplier in the game and even less known that it doesn't have ADS cone of fire bloom.

Could you compare the SABR-13 against:
Each faction's Battle Rifle
Gauss SAW
Reaper DMR
AC-X11

and against these, if you have time:
Razor GD-23
T5 AMC
Pulsar C
Corvus
Each faction's automatic Scout Rifle

[typhaon]

It would be interesting to be able to throw out the stats of players below certain BRs...

My guess is you're going to see effectiveness with weapons rise as the BR cutoff rises. My guess is you'd see this across every weapon and to a similar degree.

I think some have a notion that weapon A might be harder to use, at first, than weapon B... but - once you get to a certain skill level, they are relatively balanced... Ignoring the fact that, alone, that's an element of empire balance... I think that idea is largely a creation of wishful thinking (aka - I don't want to believe my pet gun is OP, because sometimes BR100's kill me with gun X. So, gun X must balanced!)

The BR filter would be very useful to get a good comparison how the default weapons stack up vs. everything else.

[maradine]

Originally Posted by typhaon

The BR filter would be very useful to get a good comparison how the default weapons stack up vs. everything else.

Spoiler alert - got it. Figuring out whether to attempt to re-integrate or just nuke and pave.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by maradine

Spoiler alert - got it. Figuring out whether to attempt to re-integrate or just nuke and pave.

Prepare your anus my friend. The official forums have been told of your work and already started a war.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...-death.145978/

You best get over there and explain a few things before it gets out of hand.

[EvilNinjadude]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Prepare your anus my friend. The official forums have been told of your work and already started a war.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...-death.145978/

You best get over there and explain a few things before it gets out of hand.

Oh god the tears
The rage

But it's the official forums, what did we expect. They'd ignore any disclaimer.

Hm, stabby-stats seem to be about Roughly equal... though I imagine punching infantry is easier if you're faster *cough*ZOE*cough*
Not that ZOE is OP, it's just that it's the only reliable way to punch infantry. Think TF2 scout.