Tactical use of... Smoke - Page 2

Grognard · 2012-02-02, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

6. Magic tricks

Or am I the only one who immediately thought about making a character named CrissAngel who runs around in an infil suit dropping smoke grenades?

Haha, Shhhh... youre on to me, damn!

Draep · 2012-02-02, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Seagoon

Smoke is a vital tactical tool and has a hundred uses, the game will seriously be missing somthing if its not included atleast as a handheld or launchable grenade.

And if the game can handle volumetric clouds im sure the comparitivly small ammounts of smoke at ground level wont make much difference.

But on top of the grenade types, having smoke launchers on vehicles to defend themselves or cover infantry as they disimbark would be awesome. If smoke is too OP then some simple upgrades either a scope or an implant or somthing that would alow you to see through smoke would help ballance this out.

As for smoke indoors, well having the view range drop to one or two feet infront of you can be fun and changes the gameplay in an interesting way.
But you could have vents that suck the smoke away very quickly or somthing as an excuse for them not working inside if that does not work out well.

This dude has the topic covered right here. Good topic too, OP.

Me and my buddies use smoke all the time in Bad Company 2. It's most useful for crossing very open terrain-- I usually don't even get shot at as I'm advancing behind the smoke screen. We use the same tactic to fake people out, tossing out smoke to the route we don't want to use. That second tactic there came from counter-strike.

Also very good for fucking with snipers who you can't afford to put accurate rounds into from a distance.

Coreldan · 2012-02-02, 12:41 PM

Other thing I thought is that the commanders could be able to call in a smoke barrage. Much like OS is called in now.

However that would mean most of the infantry would miss out on this that they rarely do in other games. Then again, it would make the commander's role in supporting the very basic grunts much bigger, then again they might have their hands full with more pressing issues.

Then, perhaps leaders of squads being able to call in a smoke barrage with some sort of cooldown?

BigBossMonkey · 2012-02-02, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tool

I hope there's forms of smoke grenades for infantry so long as they act like they should. Last long enough and pump out enough smoke to make them useful. To help prevent spammable situations if performance becomes an issue, smoke grenades could cost resources to acquire; so they're more of a tactical asset.

Also to prevent spamming, just limit the amount of them there can be in a certain amount of area.

Example: Only 2 smoke grenades per 10sq meters.

Grognard · 2012-02-02, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Draep

Also very good for fucking with snipers who you can't afford to put accurate rounds into from a distance.

Agreed, smoke alone, would go a long way to balancing out the ubiquitous sniperfests that will enevitably develop with so many players. It will not, however, make them useless, nor obso1337...

Coreldan · 2012-02-02, 01:04 PM

Other thing I thought is that the commanders could be able to call in a smoke barrage. Much like OS is called in now.

However that would mean most of the infantry would miss out on this that they rarely do in other games. Then again, it would make the commander's role in supporting the very basic grunts much bigger, then again they might have their hands full with more pressing issues.

Then, perhaps leaders of squads being able to call in a smoke barrage with some sort of cooldown?

Raymac · 2012-02-02, 01:09 PM

I used to think smoke would make me play better, but after I quit toking I realized that it only made me think I played better.

EDIT: ooohhhh, you mean in-game smoke. I guess I'm still feeling some residual effects.

Grognard · 2012-02-02, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I used to think smoke would make me play better, but after I quit toking I realized that it only made me think I played better.

EDIT: ooohhhh, you mean in-game smoke. I guess I'm still feeling some residual effects.

Finally! I knew this would come up... we have only to wait a short time before we see a character like Ghandi's "ChrissAngel", or perhaps "CanabisCandy", or "JointOperations", hittin' smoke 'nads in a corner...

Metalsheep · 2012-02-02, 05:41 PM

I can only really see Smoke as a way to make it difficult for Snipers to pick out targets. Other than that, there really isnt anything stopping players from just opening fire at your smoke screen. Sure, it makes you hard to see, but when players fire into the smoke anyways, you can still be hit and killed, maybe just not as quickly.

Though i do like it as an Anti-Sniper measure. Maybe as like, an Armor upgrade/sidegrade. You get hit by a sniper, and you hit a button that spews smoke everywhere out of your armor. Concealing you from the second, fatal shot. It could also be used by cloakers to mask and escape, or to cause confusion by smoking enemies instead of using it defensivly, and he can pick out and kill a target in the smoke.

Grognard · 2012-02-02, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by Metalsheep

I can only really see Smoke as a way to make it difficult for Snipers to pick out targets. Other than that, there really isnt anything stopping players from just opening fire at your smoke screen. Sure, it makes you hard to see, but when players fire into the smoke anyways, you can still be hit and killed, maybe just not as quickly.

I see your Semper Fi there (ex-marine here), so I assume you are talking about the difference between concealment, and cover, so this would be precisely the proper effect smoke should have... You will be concealed to some degree, but you are not safe...

Hermes · 2012-02-02, 05:53 PM

Didn't Higby mention something about smoke pops for sundy's as a possible upgrade? Or was I just getting too excited?

Linking in to the artillery debate (with a hope I don't derail) - maybe as an upgrade/alternate ammo for tanks and big artillery guns? Adding some mist or light smoke to the battlefield would be another nice softish asset for long range fire if you decrease it's insta-gibbing potential.

Massive-fan-on-hood counter upgrade for vehicles?

Metalsheep · 2012-02-02, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Grognard

I see your Semper Fi there (ex-marine here), so I assume you are talking about the difference between concealment, and cover, so this would be precisely the proper effect smoke should have... You will be concealed to some degree, but you are not safe...

I was more trying to stress that in a Videogame, there is nothing detrimental for the enemy player to just fire away into your smoke screen. They dont really waste resources or ammo, they can just get more at a term. In fact, i think it makes you more of a target when you use smoke, as enemy players who see the smoke will fire into it to try to get a kill, or spam grenades, which really renders smoke useless. Though, this is where using Smoke as a distraction could actually work.

I only see a few truely useful tactics for smoke. It would be cool to add ,but perhaps it could be limited to certain classes or upgrade/sidegrades. I could see smoke being useful for cloakers and maybe light/jump pack infantry. But things like MAXs and Rexos probably dont need smoke, but could benefit from it a little from players who CAN carry it. Promoting some teamwork between the different classes.

Seagoon · 2012-02-02, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Metalsheep

I can only really see Smoke as a way to make it difficult for Snipers to pick out targets. Other than that, there really isnt anything stopping players from just opening fire at your smoke screen. Sure, it makes you hard to see, but when players fire into the smoke anyways, you can still be hit and killed, maybe just not as quickly.

Though i do like it as an Anti-Sniper measure. Maybe as like, an Armor upgrade/sidegrade. You get hit by a sniper, and you hit a button that spews smoke everywhere out of your armor. Concealing you from the second, fatal shot. It could also be used by cloakers to mask and escape, or to cause confusion by smoking enemies instead of using it defensivly, and he can pick out and kill a target in the smoke.

Yes players can open fire through smoke, but with out the ability to track and adjust their fire they tend to miss a lot. DONT STAND STILL, smoke is not a magical force field to protect you but instead its instant visual cover where ever you want it. move slightly and the opponent wont know where the hell to fire at.

Here are three other examples of using smoke to your advantage:

1.Using smoke on non IR equipped vehicles can blind them completely and force them to move, this can potentially force them to show their side or rear armour just to have the ability to shoot back, if they dont want to move then keep putting smoke on them till allied AT can deal with it, a great counter to camping vehicles. This also works for infantry such as snipers, you dont have to just smoke yourself or an area near you, with a smoke grendade from a launcher you can blind the opponent with out stopping you from being able to fire effectivly.

2. Smoke can be used to cover medics trying to revive people, this is kind of straight forward, smoke blocks the los of people camping dead bodies, they dont know when to shoot to kill the medic and the revived guy again.

3. Smoke can be used offensivly to provide visual cover when advancing on a opponents position: Imagine there is the back door to a base but you are being pinned down from fire from the walls, get your squad to pop smoke out in the path to the back door and run between it to cover yourself from accurate fire.

And thats just for hand held or launcher style grenades, dont get me started on vehicle mounted launchers.

ThirdCross · 2012-02-02, 06:10 PM

Didn't Higby mention something about smoke pops for sundy's as a possible upgrade? Or was I just getting too excited?

Yup, smoke has been confirmed for some vehicles. So the mechanics in place, they just need to implement it for grenades.

Metalsheep · 2012-02-02, 06:12 PM

Yes, but when you get 20 other players firing into your smoke, it becomes alot more hazardous. Or even just a single player who grenade spams your smoke. (Like the thumper.)

Im not saying im against smoke, i think it could be used very creativly. I particularly like the idea of Cloakers using it to mask their escapes if they are caught. (Ninja Syle.) Or using it ON an enemies position to cause chaos and pick out singular targets in the smoke. (Again, ninja style.) Maybe this could require some special optics for the cloaker to see through the smoke. And maybe the Cloakers smoke could interrupt Darklight vision, to give him a chance to escape a player(s) with Darklight.