Trayvon Martin - Page 23

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-04-17, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Geist

Your a bigot if you think him being white would have changed anything. A huge white kid in a hoodie at night? I don't see how the color of his skin would have made him any less suspicious.

...what made him suspicious to begin with, Geist? He was returning from a convenience store with a bag of skittles, on his way back to his dad's house.

... and since when is he huge?

... and I have to ask again, how is it bigotry to ask if things would have been different had he not been black? I don't think you understand the word 'bigotry'.

Geist · 2012-04-20, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

...what made him suspicious to begin with, Geist? He was returning from a convenience store with a bag of skittles, on his way back to his dad's house.

... and since when is he huge?

... and I have to ask again, how is it bigotry to ask if things would have been different had he not been black? I don't think you understand the word 'bigotry'.

Sorry I haven't responded, been busy.

First off, I admit I'm no expert, but he was wearing a hoodie correct? And it was at night? I'm not saying he was in the right to follow this kid and confront him(if that was indeed what happened), I just think that it was more likely that he was looking at the fact that it was at night, he was wearing his hoodie up, in a neighborhood where robberies have taken place.

And he was 6'3" right(could be wrong, just got it off a random news site), although I personally don't know why I put in that he was huge, his height probably didn't have much to do with anything.

And finally, I probably shouldn't have said that you were a bigot for thinking so, and I apologize, but I do find it strange that people automatically jump to the conclusion that he was racially profiling Trayvon Martin when so far, the only proof has been edited recordings and personal opinion.

I personally believe that what is really fueling most racism in America atm is politics and the media, it's one of our greatest problems right now. The media and politicians/political parties are so divisive I feel we may be headed down a path we really don't want to head down.

I'm really wondering why they're trying to pin him for 2nd degree murder, when it really does look more like a manslaughter case. There doesn't seem to be much to suggest that Zimmerman, upon spotting Trayvon, had any intention of killing him. There was clearly a fight. The question should be, was the force Zimmerman used lawful?

I have a feeling he's going to be acquitted of these charges, which is unfortunate, because I don't think he's entirely innocent... I just don't think he's guilty of second degree murder.

I really am glad we can agree on this particular point.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-04-20, 02:55 PM

I need you to understand that I am not trolling you or being facetious when I warn you that suggesting that wearing a hoodie and being tall made him "suspicious" is coming dangerously close to the irresponsible thinking that blames rape victims for dressing like "sluts" and alluding, obliquely, that they deserved it, or are somehow responsible for what happened to him.

It doesn't matter how you dress or what you look like; so long as we are minding our own business, we all have a right to move through our lives without having to worry about ending up on the receiving end of violence from another. It is, at the core of things, the most basic human right there is.

There is no evidence at all that Martin was conducting improper or suspicious actions. Pointing out physical descriptors does not change that, and only betrays prejudices that I think deserve a great deal of scrutiny.

Geist · 2012-04-20, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

I need you to understand that I am not trolling you or being facetious when I warn you that suggesting that wearing a hoodie and being tall made him "suspicious" is coming dangerously close to the irresponsible thinking that blames rape victims for dressing like "sluts" and alluding, obliquely, that they deserved it, or are somehow responsible for what happened to him.

Wait, where did I say that he deserved to be shot? I'm pretty sure Trayvon did not deserve to be shot, at all, which is why I agree with you on the point that Zimmerman should be charged with Manslaughter. I just feel there are way too many people calling "RACIST" when there is no proof and are creating racial tension where little or no tension existed before.

I was trying to point out that it was much more likely that the fact that a man was walking around with his hood up at night in a neighborhood that was known to have robberies previously is much more plausible then Zimmerman saying "The color of his skin is black, he must be up to no good!!!".

Doesn't make any of his actions right, I agree that if people minded their own business, mistakes like this would not occur as often. But until I hear all the evidence in the court of law, I withhold judgement.

Baneblade · 2012-04-20, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

There is no evidence at all that Martin was conducting improper or suspicious actions.

We don't know that.

**Malorn** · 2012-04-20, 06:46 PM

Meh.

Figment · 2012-04-16, 06:31 PM

So anyone with a hood is suspicious? So if we ban hoods as a clothing line, we have no more criminal suspects?

Mind, I'm not saying a white person with a hood can't be a thug, just that judging someone by what they wear is also a form of discrimination.

**Malorn** · 2012-04-17, 08:29 AM

Meh.

Quovatis · 2012-04-20, 09:36 AM

New pictures of Zimmerman's injured head after shooting:
http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic...opstories.html

Figment · 2012-04-20, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Quovatis

New pictures of Zimmerman's injured head after shooting:
http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphic...opstories.html

Not sure what difference that image makes though, it was already known he had been bleeding, just that the injuries wern't severe enough to require severe medical treatment. Had similar injuries as a kid after falling and on the football pitch.

Neither the nose bleed nor this says anything about what went down.

The more interesting information in that article is that the gunpowder burns were clearly visible on Martin's hood, indicating he was very near to Zimmerman when shot (in the chest iirc?). So at the very least, Martin was not shot from a distance. Unfortunately that doesn't say anything on whether he was backing off or not (or if he even had a chance to) after the gun was drawn. Ballistics should indicate how they were standing with respect to each other.

The question remains why there was a fight though. Was Martin defending himself or did he attack? Did Martin feel cornered and/or did he see an opportunity to turn the roles (hunter becomes the hunted) in a pre-emptive strike? Did Martin confront Zimmerman about why he was following him or did Zimmerman find Martin hiding somewhere and confronted him about why he was there? Or did they run into each other after thinking they lost one another and one of them panicked (could be Martin)? Did Martin believe Zimmerman to be a mugger or assailant and went vigilante himself?

So many potential ways things could have gone down. :/

Hamma · 2012-04-20, 11:09 AM

The difference it makes is it proves there was some sort of struggle at close range. I don't have a source at the moment but the percentage of gun fights that occur within 20 feet or less is around 90% the gunpowder burns are not surprising.

If you were in a case where you had to use your gun you typically don't pull it out just to show it around. You pull it out to use it and are in fear of your life.

The last part of what you said is very true though we don't know what happened that led up to this.

Figment · 2012-04-20, 11:42 AM

I figured that there was a fight of some sort was already established because it was known the paramedics had treated him for wounds on the back of the head and nose.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-04-20, 12:09 PM

I'm really wondering why they're trying to pin him for 2nd degree murder, when it really does look more like a manslaughter case. There doesn't seem to be much to suggest that Zimmerman, upon spotting Trayvon, had any intention of killing him. There was clearly a fight. The question should be, was the force Zimmerman used lawful?

I have a feeling he's going to be acquitted of these charges, which is unfortunate, because I don't think he's entirely innocent... I just don't think he's guilty of second degree murder.

**Malorn** · 2012-04-20, 12:48 PM

Meh.

Figment · 2012-04-20, 07:28 PM

Yes Malorn, it all adds up to... Prejudice. :/ it all fits the stereotype criminal and then there is statistics that implicate race being an aggravating factor to the total risk score... Stereotyping is the application of prejudices. Not quite racist but discriminating and biased certainly. Is it understandable? Somewhat. It is sad that it is though, but the whole self-stereotyping gangsta culture is probably largely to blame for that...

And then there is Zimmerman, frustrated by all these thugs that always get away... And here is a potential one! Profiling on stereotype is definitely possible. But anyone claiming intended shooting? Very very much doubt it. I'd expect charges to be toned down to manslaughter eventually.

Anyway, is there a point to continue this discussion?