Religion

[Baneblade]

Their own Bible says organized religion is the province of the sinner. Because a relationship with the Lord should be entirely personal.

So I think this need to ascribe religiosity to everything is akin to the scared octopus blowing its ink load, hoping to hide itself and what scared it.

[ItsTheSheppy]

I gotta say, debates about term definitions are some of the most boring imaginable. I guess we find ourselves here when we've exhausted all other topics.

[Khrakhan]

How about we all just start our own religion here, so we are all of the same....

Vanu!


Or, since elmos and smurfs are too stupid to grasp our superior intellectualness (:P)...Planetsideity






Religion discussions just never really achieve anything and usually end up with the wackjobs from all sides arguing semantics....

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Should have probably thought of that before everyone started writing 60-page essays. Without being clear on definitions, it's like tug of war with an imaginary rope.

Thing is, the definitions are pretty clear, so long as we can all agree we're speaking the same language. I mean we can go on at length about what the meaning of the word "is" is, but we'd never get anywhere.

The question is: gods or no gods? Yes/no, and explain your answer. That's it. Everyone gets too wrapped up on labels. I don't care what I am. A Gnostic Strong Humanist? Sure, whatever floats your boat.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by WVoneseven

Strong catholic.... and this poll is a little silly as from my personal experience the gaming and computing community is overwhelmingly atheistic which I believe is a result of that same IT community feeling attached to science.

Young people in general are much less religious than older generations. Free-flow of information makes it harder for people to grow up within an atmosphere of pure religious indoctrination anymore. It's still pretty tough for kids to shake the stuff their parents were impressing on them since before they were able to understand, but at this point it's basically an inevitable slide toward Western nations becoming overwhelmingly atheistic with a few isolated pockets of religious fanatics.

Originally Posted by Zolan

Anthropologically speaking, based upon many scholarly definitions, Atheism can be defined as a non-theistic religion.

No, it can't be defined as a religion because it makes no assertions whatsoever and is characteristic of simply a lack of belief in something. If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair colour.

But that's cool, you're either trolling or living in a fantasy world where things mean whatever you want them to mean. Probably the former.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by MadPenguin

One of those eh?

If by this you mean "everyone still wholeheartedly disagrees with me and im not going to respond to their criticisms of my position" then yeh, exactly as you'd hoped

My post about the distinctions was a troll post intended to get everyone to give me the knowledge vs. belief response so that I could make my original point using their own statements.

I guess it wasn't self-explanatory.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by Warborn

No, it can't be defined as a religion because it makes no assertions whatsoever and is characteristic of simply a lack of belief in something. If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair colour.

But that's cool, you're either trolling or living in a fantasy world where things mean whatever you want them to mean. Probably the former.

Once again, another statement taken at rock face.

My point is that religion and atheism are not exclusive.

Secular Humanism, of which atheism is it's base, is by definition a religion.

This is, ironically, contrary to the basic secular humanist belief that humans are capable of being moral and ethical without religion.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Zolan

My point is that religion and atheism are not exclusive.

That sounds more like a hope than a fact. I understand that you want something to attack and definitions can be an easy target, but people have been kind in correcting you. At this point you just sound like a troll. You've already admitted to trolling in hopes of making a point and failed. Seriously we're trying to keep an open atmosphere where people can ask questions and learn in this thread. You're coming off as extremely hostile. (Search for Traak's posts here).

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

That sounds more like a hope than a fact. I understand that you want something to attack and definitions can be an easy target, but people have been kind in correcting you. At this point you just sound like a troll. You've already admitted to trolling in hopes of making a point and failed. Seriously we're trying to keep an open atmosphere where people can ask questions and learn in this thread.

Saying it sounds like a hope does not make it so.

It's simple.

Agnosticism should not be included in the poll.

By definition Religion and Atheism are not exclusive.

Those were my arguments, and as far as I can tell, most people are just saying tralala troll tralala you're crazy without actually making counter-points pertaining to those two statements.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

You're coming off as extremely hostile. (Search for Traak's posts here).

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Zolan

By definition Religion and Atheism are not exclusive.

Those were my arguments, and as far as I can tell, most people are just saying tralala troll tralala you're crazy without actually making counter-points pertaining to those two statements.

It's hard to debate with someone who has a belief that Atheism is more than a lack of in belief in deities. You're attempting to redefine the word, and when it comes to words the best we can say is "no, you can't redefine it". Drop it.

[MadPenguin]

If asserting there is a God makes you religious, and not asserting there is a God makes you religious. Then religious becomes a useless term. You've just come up with another word for "human"

[Figment]

My question is why, Zolan, why are you so adamant at equalising the terms humanist and atheist, when humanism is a, but not THE, subset of atheism, but also a subset of agnosticism?

In fact to be a humanist, you must be EITHER atheist OR agnostic.

But to be atheist, you do not need to be humanist. Not at all.

I'm an atheist, but I'm not a humanist. Not a religious humanist, not a secular humanist and not something that's trying to compromise the lot. I'm simply a non-believer.

Are there religion replacement movements within atheism and agnosticism? Yes. Does that mean atheism itself has become a religion? No, because then it just shows you don't (want to) understand the definition AND probably try to categorize it into something you DO understand OR can argue against: having a specific set of believes. Possibly because of a hidden agenda to declare it a faith and therefore of equal debating value to a religious point of view. Even though if this were the case, it still wouldn't be equal, since making farfetched assumptions will never be the same as not making any assumptions whatsoever.


At least that's typically what I've found whenever someone is trying to argue atheism and agnosticism are a faith or religion.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

It's hard to debate with someone who has a belief that Atheism is more than a lack of in belief in deities. You're attempting to redefine the word, and when it comes to words the best we can say is "no, you can't redefine it". Drop it.

I've already stated previously that the term Atheist means a lack of belief in God (or Gods) and nothing more. I'm not even attempting to redefine the term itself. I was referring to Atheism as a belief structure in the larger picture, and what the acceptance of that position entails.

I did type what you disagreed with first, so I'm guessing that's why you skipped the second part where I said exactly what you just said.


The only word I've been defining is Religion.

Everyone has made the misinterpretation that in order for something to be a "religion" that it must involve a belief in a God or Gods. I have been endeavoring to clarify this with little success, as everyone seems to be ignoring this point in favor of responding to statements I've made about Atheism, which seem to be prone to misinterpretation as well, obviously.

My point, regarding religion, is that atheism and religion are not exclusive to one another. Anthropologically speaking, legally speaking, and under several scholarly definitions of religion, theism is not a defining attribute of religion.

Philosophies and belief systems, whether they involve atheistic or theistic beliefs are equal under the definition of religion. Recall that Atheism means a lack of belief in God (or Gods), not a lack of belief in religion, which, evidenced by this thread, is a common misunderstanding.

[Zolan]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Nihilism is much more hardcore btw.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this thread is a subtle effort to turn everyone on the planetside-universe forums into a nihilist.

[Effective]

Originally Posted by Zolan

The only word I've been defining is Religion.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith



Atheism doesn't really fit into any of those.