Zealot Maxes need rebalancing - Page 2

Dragonskin · 2013-05-24, 08:31 AM

I jump into the nerf ZOE shout matches in game, but I'm not totally convinced they are anymore OP than TR or NC maxes. Each has their advantages now... VS didn't have a true advantage before.

VS max hits hard for once and is mobile with zoe.. but can be killed quickly with explosives. If I hit a VS max with a rocket it's severely damaged even with flak armor on. Since VS maxes are so mobile and take a lot of damage with zoe active it's considerably harder for engineers to keep them up unless the zoe max can keep retreating to a safe spot to repair. I have to agree as a person that plays all factions.. the vast majority of the complaints are just because you see so many VS using maxes for once. It's a common sight to see a bunch of TR or NC maxes... now you see a lot of VS maxes too.

NC maxes are killer in CQC.. they can reload WHILE the shield is out and their max rank shield is amazing at soaking damage. Engineers have no trouble hiding behind the NC max keeping it up. NC maxes in biolabs are even more trouble than they were before.. they can make shielded walls denying routes for enemies to break through while allowing allies to fire around them.

TR maxes are scary in lockdown unless you can get behind them, but that can be difficult. They can melt enemies that are not prepared and engineers can hide behind them to keep them up fairly easy. I would say that lockdown is probably the most limiting to me, but it gives TR maxes crazy DPS so.

Overall every faction is complaining about something this patch. Oh, the only thing I seem to hear that might actually be OP about ZOE is that I have heard ZOE maxes are immune to concussion grenades. I haven't confirmed that, but if that is true then that is the only thing that needs to change about ZOE in my opinion.

Falcon_br · 2013-05-26, 02:31 AM

Now, after 3 days of playing, I do think there are more VS Maxes them all the other VS classes!
So my score/hr has increased a lot fighting the Vanu!

Rolfski · 2013-05-24, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

IMO it's fine as it is.

It's not fine as is because it's making other VS classes in confined spaces like biolabs borderline useless. Smart VS outfits will have entire squads make up with Zealot Maxes plus a few engies and LA's for support to dominate any biolab/CQB base this game is throwing at them. I'm already seeing this happening on Miller and Mattherson. And as resources are broken in this game atm, spawning them is not really an issue if you put a few certs into the cooldown timer. There's really no need any more for VS to play heavy assault, Zealot Maxes have almost made this class obsolete overnight, especially in CQB.
High sustained dps + mobility + engie repair support= win in this game.

Assist · 2013-05-24, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

It's not fine as is because it's making other VS classes in confined spaces like biolabs borderline useless. Smart VS outfits will have entire squads make up with Zealot Maxes plus a few engies and LA's for support to dominate any biolab/CQB base this game is throwing at them. I'm already seeing this happening on Miller and Mattherson. And as resources are broken in this game atm, spawning them is not really an issue if you put a few certs into the cooldown timer. There's really no need any more for VS to play heavy assault, Zealot Maxes have almost made this class obsolete overnight, especially in CQB.
High sustained dps + mobility + engie repair support= win in this game.

It's amazing to me how wrong people are about zoe. It's completely worthless to use in CQC. It's going to do nothing but get you killed quicker, it's only real advantage right now is outside combat and medium ranged. Even then, you people apparently have no clue how fast they die. Anyone claiming they make any infantry class obsolete is just plain wrong, a Heavy Assault will outlast a ZOE max every encounter. A BR1 TR w/ Carv and base shield will kill a ZOE max 1v1, if you don't believe me go ahead and try it. Ever hit a ZOE MAX with a rocket launcher? Currently any rocket launcher is a 2 shot.

It really is astonishing to me that people are complaining about this ability. The strafing comments blow my mind. Do people really have that bad of aim? This is worse than the drivel on the reddit and official forums about the "ADAD abusers". I mean come the fuck on, it's called strafing and it's been in every FPS game since the mid 90's!

You know what though, I hope they get rid of zoe and just give us jump jets like they should have, then you'd really see the whining about maneuverability. ZOE is a shit ability for good players, increasing your damage taken in hopes that the players you're playing against have shit aim is not a good trade off.

Canaris · 2013-05-24, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

It really is astonishing to me that people are complaining about this ability. The strafing comments blow my mind. Do people really have that bad of aim? This is worse than the drivel on the reddit and official forums about the "ADAD abusers". I mean come the fuck on, it's called strafing and it's been in every FPS game since the mid 90's!

before you take that tone with people you should learn the differnce between Strafing: A lateral movement in 1 direction to avoid counter attack fire

ADADing - is mashing the left and right buttons to confuse the servers hit detection in order not to strafe very far in either direction yet avoid fire in the same way by abusing the game mechanics.

Dreamcast · 2013-05-24, 05:41 AM

A Zoe will destroy a TR MAX...SRSLY.

The Zoe strafing is just amazing, that thing will destroy anything at close to meduim range, specially open field.

A Stationary TR MAX is an easy target for a ZOE.

I am ok with it, they die to a single rocket to the face or just on c4 brick from far, the only problem is hitting moving target, but I am already getting used to that.
When I am camping a spawn point with anchored mode I can kill Zoe max fast, but when it comes a shielded max, I can do anything, just die, he will get on my face, maybe circle me and when I am undeploying he will kill me, or just kill me face to face, he still got more, dps on melee range.
So, anchored kills Zoe, that kills shield that kills anchored, looks strange but functional.

Bro you're camping a spawn point....Is easy as hell to kill somebody when your spawn camping them.

ZOE strafing speeds need to be greatly reduced, at least to normal infantry levels.

KodanBlack · 2013-06-01, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

ZOE strafing speeds need to be greatly reduced, at least to normal infantry levels.

I actually think that putting ZOE on a limited power supply would be a better balancing factor. Like Heavy shields and Infiltrator cloaking. Added levels increase duration.

KarrdeBRBU · 2013-05-24, 06:35 AM

Let's not start this firestorm here. Give it 2 weeks to cool off. If the ZOE is still a problem then we can have the discussion. I still think it's more a result of VS MAXes actually being fielded for anything other than AA, and there being a metric ton of them right now since playing AI MAX isn't god awful anymore.

Maarvy · 2013-05-24, 06:38 AM

What you mean now my VS max can compete with hacksaws and fracture maxes ...

My heart bleeds for you red and blue muppets ... it realy does .

Shamrock · 2013-05-24, 07:35 AM

Fine, scrap ZoE, and give us jump jets back as our special ability, then you will see the true meaning of "outmaneuvering", complaining about strafe speed is just total :-

ChipMHazard · 2013-05-24, 07:51 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EzkPj3liG8I
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ration.120615/

I've never seen it ingame myself and I have no idea if it's possible to do with the ZOE.
Atm. I do think that the movement increase and ability to switch it on and off instantly, or there abouts, does make the ZOE too effective overall. But that's just my impression atm. and I'm still not used to fighting against ZOEs, so take it with a grain of salt. We'll have a better picture after a week or so.
Then again I also regard Lockdown as being too effective with bursters and possibly fractures.

Canaris · 2013-05-24, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EzkPj3liG8I
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ration.120615/

I've never seen it ingame myself and I have no idea if it's possible to do with the ZOE.
Atm. I do think that the movement increase and ability to switch it on and off instantly, or there abouts, does make the ZOE too effective overall. But that's just my impression atm. and I'm still not used to fighting against ZOEs, so take it with a grain of salt. We'll have a better picture after a week or so.
Then again I also regard Lockdown as being too effective with bursters and possibly fractures.

thanks for posting that up Chip, heck you don't even need a macro to do it, just quick fingers

Assist · 2013-05-24, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EzkPj3liG8I
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ration.120615/

I've never seen it ingame myself and I have no idea if it's possible to do with the ZOE.
Atm. I do think that the movement increase and ability to switch it on and off instantly does make the ZOE too effective overall. But that's just my impression atm. and I'm still not used to fighting against ZOEs, so take it with a grain of salt.

What's glitched about the video in the thread? That's called strafing back and forth, there was no hit detection issue there at all. You could consistently see his center mass moving back and forth with no warping of any sort. There was nothing wrong with what video showed, apparently people just do not like strafing. I'd also like to point out that if that guy recording was shooting at that player, he wouldn't even have had to move his aim because he was on target 90% of that video without even moving. If that strafing player wanted to avoid being hit, he would have had to strafe farther, which makes his movement even more predictable.

The NiVX video makes me laugh, because that guy isn't even strafing. I don't know the term for it, but in Darkfall they called it squirreling. He was reloading, so he was sprinting while turning rapidly, which makes it impossible to guess which direction he's going to turn next. If you're not firing back strafing to avoid gun-fire is a horrible idea, you move too slow, the only reason to strafe is if you're firing back at the guy. If you want to avoid damage you're much better off "squirreling" than strafing. If you wish to complain about momentum go for it, but it's nothing to do with server lag, hit detection, or hit box location. There's a lot of issues with momentum in this game, like every vehicle, but there are 0 issues with hit detection and to adjust movement momentum to remove 'squirreling' tactics completely ruins games combat(See Darkfall: Unholy Wars compared to Darkfall1 combat discussions)

camycamera · 2013-05-24, 07:54 AM

over at briggs i have NEVER in my LIFE seen so much MAX spam from the VS.... all of them had the zealot, and every second infantry was a MAX, it was ridiculous!

some MAXes here, some MAXes there, MAXes everywhere! they're just getting the most out of the ability before SOE nerfs it :P

ChipMHazard · 2013-05-24, 07:58 AM

Well they are also just excited about getting something new for the MAX, so naturally we're going to be seeing a lot more MAX users atm. Should calm down again though. If not... Well, the devs do love their metric data.