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View Poll Results: What do you identify yourself as? | |||
Atheist/Skeptic/Agnostic | 151 | 70.89% | |
Catholic | 21 | 9.86% | |
Protestant | 24 | 11.27% | |
Jewish | 5 | 2.35% | |
Muslim | 2 | 0.94% | |
Philisophy (Such as Buddhism) | 10 | 4.69% | |
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-04-17, 04:10 AM | [Ignore Me] #541 | |||
Lieutenant General
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You may just have to accept that people don't have any need of your religion and simply tell you they think you are flat out wrong, because they have their own ideas about a topic and like to share and discuss it and because they actually fully disagree with the arguments you present and perhaps some hope to convince you instead. Is that so hard to see? :/ If you ask people if they want a loaf of 9 day old bread that's all spoiled with fungus and mice ate holes in it and they say "no thanks, we don't think that'd be a good idea, we'll take this freshly baked bread from the bakery across the street that is of much higher quality", does that mean they actually want you to keep pressing the loaf of rotting bread on them? Because that's what this is like, you pushing an obsolete piece of rhetorics while there's a much more tasty piece of bread to be gotten elsewhere. Last edited by Figment; 2012-04-17 at 04:12 AM. |
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2012-04-17, 07:43 AM | [Ignore Me] #542 | |||
Second Lieutenant
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You might says, okay, that's your prerogative. No harm no foul, what's the harm in you and I believing different things? I'll happily tell you. First of all, belief informs action. We behave in accordance with our beliefs. Now, I'm assuming your religion maintains the existence of hell; after all, if everyone could get into heaven, no matter what, there would be no point in joining Team God. If you and I both end up in paradise, all that would mean was that you're wasting your time. Also, it's kind of hard to feel good about a god that rewards Pol Pot and Ted Bundy with eternal paradise. So, since I utterly reject your god and all the teachings of the bible, according to your religion I'm going to hell. You have to believe that; if you don't, you're an apostate. "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.' (John 14:6)" Since I reject Jesus, I don't get into heaven. The question is, do you believe that I, and the majority of the rest of humanity (who aren't now or never have been Christians) deserve to be tortured forever? We in western civilization consider grotesque practices of torture to be the height of immorality, and nobody in their right mind would consider anyone else a candidate, for example, for breaking on the wheel. But according to Jesus, I have that, and worse, to look forward to, forever. For the crime of not believing in him or accepting him as my savior, and literally nothing else. I could found and run a worldwide organization that's sole job is to cut baby dolphins out of fishing nets and feed starving children in Cambodia and it doesn't matter because I think Jesus is a big hoax, ergo I go to Hell. That's immoral. It's an immoral belief and leads to actions on the part of the believers that are illogical, unreasonable and constitute a negative force in the world. We're better off without them. It's what leads to the persecution of homosexuals, to interfaith violence, to discrimination and personal stress and torment. It reinforces and defends the "extremist" wackos (who are only extreme in their adherence to the tenets of the faith). That's why religion is unacceptable, and why we as a people should never stop questioning it and exposing it for the fabrication that it is. |
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2012-04-17, 09:57 AM | [Ignore Me] #543 | ||
First Sergeant
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Most people can do better than God in terms of love. I know several people who would let literally anyone into their home if they needed it.
God doesn't just deny access to his home for people who don't love him or acknowledge him, he sends them to the most violent jail for all eternity. I'm sorry but I would rather join the innocents in hell than be accepted into the house of douche bags who think they're better than everyone else. Last edited by Elude; 2012-04-17 at 09:58 AM. |
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2012-04-18, 06:03 AM | [Ignore Me] #548 | |||
Colonel
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Unlike on Earth, where many are in prison for being "too black, too strong" no one in hell is innocent. God is a perfect judge. He loves mankind. Police don't arrest felons because the police are unjust scum hoping to ruin society, for the most part. What do you propose be done with evil people? Have them all live at your house? If you are so eager to live with all the "innocents in hell" then why not do what you can now and go live in prison with all those "innocents"? No innocent person, no child, ever went to hell. No one who has heard and rejected the truth of Jesus Christ, or the Lord God in the Old Covenant times, is in heaven. If someone has never heard of Jesus, they are judged by their own conscience either accusing them or excusing them, açcording to the Bible. This idea that God is mad at everyone for not telling him how great he is is idiotic, and is not found anywhere in the Bible. Maybe it is espoused by whatever literature you read? Whatever friends you hang out with? It's nowhere in the Bible. People go to hell for the same, but more perfectly guilty, reasons that they go to prison. Because they rebel against the authority that offers them a choice. You can choose to murder or not murder. You can choose to steal or not steal. You can choose to accept Jesus Christ as savior, or discard him. No one makes these choices for people, and everyone lives with the results of their choices. But innocents in hell? Laughable. Jesus is the door to heaven. No one gets to the father buy by him. Rejecting him is like claiming that lifeboats don't exist when you're on a sinking ship, and refusing to get on one. If you drown, it's your fault, no the lifeboat's.
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Bagger 288 Last edited by Traak; 2012-04-18 at 06:04 AM. |
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2012-04-18, 07:45 AM | [Ignore Me] #550 | |||
First Lieutenant
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. You compare murders to gay people. That's a huge stretch no matter how you look at it. There's also a difference between being put in prison and being tortured for an eternity. How does one determine innocence? If you're right, people are put into hell for simply not believing in Jesus being the son of god. How is that a crime? How is being gay a crime but rape isn't (according to the bible)? Actually plently of people who have never heard the law go to hell, according the the bible. Romans 3 20Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. No man, however virtuous, can be justified by law keeping. The god suggested by the bible is hardly perfect. He seems to fail at doing whatever he tries to do most of the time. The idea isn't as far-fetched as you make it sounds as it is touched upon in the bible. There are several verses that talk about how you should worship and/or fear god, and then go and murder everyone who doesn't believe in him. While it's true that none of it says you're going to hell if you don't do it, it's still suggests that the god of the bible is a vain narcissist, and yes very angry that people would not worship him. You're comparing stealing and murder to not believing that someone isn't the son of bigfoot. Seriously? |
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2012-04-18, 08:10 AM | [Ignore Me] #551 | |||
Lieutenant General
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Accepting him is like claiming an invisible, intangible lifeboat exists (these two properties are VERY important) and your life depends on trusting the people that claim there is this lifeboat deployed in the icy waters below and you should just jump, HOPING there'll be an invisible, intangible lifeboat there that will break your fall and keeps you from drowning and freezing in ice cold waters. The alternative is accepting that a jump will simply get you killed, because there's no reason to believe invisible, intangible ships exists, nor that they have any of the aforementioned properties and thus simply accepting the inevitable: you will end up dead anyway. The problem here Traak, is that you presume there's a ship in the first place. The problem with that is that a ship has to be constructed and designed and that the designer thought to install lifeboats in case of a disaster. We don't think there is a ship, but instead floating debris that happens to cling together to form some sort of random structure you can stand on. Therefore, there is no designer and thus also no lifeboats. You think life is ordened. We do not. We consider life and the world to exist in chaos with the only ordening power being humans. Since us humans like order and look for patterns in everything, it's not hard to imagine some would imagine there's a bigger pattern. A bigger purpose. You are one of those people that just WANTS there to be something bigger. Not all of us think there's always a conspiracy theory to random events. You do. |
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2012-04-18, 12:32 PM | [Ignore Me] #552 | ||||
Lieutenant Colonel
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Yes, I just rejected your entire argument in under a quarter of the amount of text you took to write.
Last edited by p0intman; 2012-04-18 at 12:34 PM. |
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2012-04-18, 04:42 PM | [Ignore Me] #554 | |||
Sergeant
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2012-04-24, 11:05 PM | [Ignore Me] #555 | |||||||
Maybe that is due to the root of your point being: I believe it, so you should too.
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