De-evolution of Planetside?!

[Saifoda]

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

So we should not bring up the point because it annoys you, that's it?

I'm reallllly sowwwy that you cannot stand a slight critic on an incoming game.
Pointing out potential flaws as soon as possible is good for the game, not bad, if you really care for PS2, you should know

So basically the argument is this: "We saw an E3 construction of a game that's barely coming out of alpha right now, and the parts of that demo that annoyed me were the parts of it that I didn't get to see." And by that I mean everything he was talking about with the tactics, the massive meta-game of base captures; so apparently all of that is now destroyed because of an E3 demo? Get real. And you know what? It is annoying because it's an unfounded criticism. Might as well have added in a complaint about the MAX units being able to drive/fly vehicles (which, unlike the other complaints, actually WAS something that was present in the demo).




E3 Construction.


Wait.

For.

Beta.




EDIT: And really if you want all the tactics and strategy, there's a little franchise called Total War that has that in ******; go play that for a while.

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by Saifoda

So basically the argument is this: "We saw an E3 construction of a game that's barely coming out of alpha right now, and the parts of that demo that annoyed me were the parts of it that I didn't get to see." And by that I mean everything he was talking about with the tactics, the massive meta-game of base captures; so apparently all of that is now destroyed because of an E3 demo? Get real. And you know what? It is annoying because it's an unfounded criticism. Might as well have added in a complaint about the MAX units being able to drive/fly vehicles (which, unlike the other complaints, actually WAS something that was present in the demo).




E3 Construction.


Wait.

For.

Beta.




EDIT: And really if you want all the tactics and strategy, there's a little franchise called Total War that has that in ******; go play that for a while.

Forget about his rant and testicle thing about the demo.
Thing is, we have zero info on what is going to be put on, true, and everything, everything that is emphasized avoids the subject. The publicity is all around the mass fighting aspect, it's all around the zerg. So yes, it's a little itching for those that enjoyed the totality of PS1, not just the zerg So, guess what, they ask questions about it.

As for your EDIT, Planetside is a game where, fortunately, I don't have to change game to achieve both tactics and shooter. It's funny how you kind of destroy your main argument with it, tbh. "We have no clue, be faithful and wait", followed by "if you want that, go away anyway". Well, if that's the answer, then yes, I'm going to continue annoying you with my questions

[captainkapautz]

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

So we should not bring up the point because it annoys you, that's it?

I'm reallllly sowwwy that you cannot stand a slight critic on an incoming game.
Pointing out potential flaws as soon as possible is good for the game, not bad, if you really care for PS2, you should know

"OHMYGOD TACTICS R DED" is anything but a slight critic.

If you really care about PS2, you wouldn't start judging the game by a simple video, but instead wait for the soon to come beta when you can actually have a real hands on.

[Access]

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

"OHMYGOD TACTICS R DED" is anything but a slight critic.

If you really care about PS2, you wouldn't start judging the game by a simple video, but instead wait for the soon to come beta when you can actually have a real hands on.

You still seem to have the patience and trust in developers that I prolly lost a good
while ago. The time I judge a game after buying it is way over. Drastic gameplay
changes like adding Generators/Hacking-disruption of base systems like radars and so
on wont be happening over night. Even some concerns stated in a beta build wont
be addressed in a rush. And as such will be put down the pipeline of content patches
to come. Later...

[Troscus]

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

So we should not bring up the point because it annoys you, that's it?

I'm reallllly sowwwy that you cannot stand a slight critic on an incoming game.
Pointing out potential flaws as soon as possible is good for the game, not bad, if you really care for PS2, you should know

Saying someone told you to shut up when what actually happened was they provided a decent, but not unstoppable counter-argument. Cop-outs work both ways. "Wait for Beta" is the side opposing you, "You just want to stifle my opinion" is your side's. That's all that's ever going to come of any debate.

If people would stop debating and start DISCUSSING, these forums would be much more pleasant.

[Goldeh]

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

So we should not bring up the point because it annoys you, that's it?

I'm reallllly sowwwy that you cannot stand a slight critic on an incoming game.
Pointing out potential flaws as soon as possible is good for the game, not bad, if you really care for PS2, you should know

All you basically said was. "I remember things in PS1, now that the things I remember in PS1 are no longer in PS2, PS2 is dumb"

...? It's kind of what I hear when these threads pop.

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by Goldeh

All you basically said was. "I remember things in PS1, now that the things I remember in PS1 are no longer in PS2, PS2 is dumb"

...? It's kind of what I hear when these threads pop.

To precise again that I'm not looking for ps1 reincarnated :

It's not about taking bases, it's about what can be done besides taking bases. Stop being so focused on only the taking / fight mecanism, the very point imho is that there could be valuable side objectives helping the main one. Without hindering the main fight to the slightest. Taking out a tech gen to deny ennemy the right to get tanks and reavers, for example (so, no, gen was not simply about CR5 wanting to end a fight). Going cave to create new links and capture opportunities. Taking advantage of a low NTU situation to have a hack back in ennemy territory. I'm not asking for all this to stay as is, I'm wondering what will be possible in PS2 besides the zerg? I see that targetting specific hex with specific resource is going to be a good focus. Capturing adjacencies of bases as well to help the capture of a well defended place (and btw, all this always revolves around capturing a point, there's not much diversity, like using some specific tools for a specific task - boomers vs gens, and all that stuff. Basically, a "capture squad" is going to be a standard, you won't have much to think about the task

[UKSwiFT]

I'm consistently confused by the belief that 'tactics' can only exist if forced upon a player by a collection of game systems of some kind. It doesn't work that way and couldn't work that way in a massive environment like Planetside 2. Players will do whatever the hell players want to do. What is the 'best' thing to do only evolves from playing the game a lot, which none of us have, to create that meta-game of builds and tactics.

What you can do though, is give incentives to play more tactical such as capturing points, staying alive, and being an all-round better player. That's what happened in PS1 and that is what will happen in PS2. We are given the tools in order to create these epic battles, these epic battles aren't created for us.

[Eyeklops]

I don't think PS2 is "losing" tactics. Think of it as a "shifting" tactical importance to other areas. The infantry, or shooter, part of the game looks to be much more tactical than PS1.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

I don't think PS2 is "losing" tactics. Think of it as a "shifting" tactical importance to other areas. The infantry, or shooter, part of the game looks to be much more tactical than PS1.

How so?

[MrMorton]

there are other ways to cap a base besides hacking terminals,

i know for a fact higby said that, I think it was in the totalbiscuit interviews...

[Haro]

Rose-tinted glasses. I'm surprised that some of you can see the screen in front of you through them..

Planetside the greatest game ever? First, that's totally subjective and unwarranted. A visionary game, yes. A fun game, usually. A unique game, most definitely. But please, spare me about it being the best game ever. You're deliberately overlooking plenty of things about the game that weren't good.

Poor level design, poor shooter mechanics, gameplay and netcode issues... believe me: from an objective stand point, the game was far from perfect. Don't get me wrong, I loved planetside, but I know that if no changes were made to the game, it would not do well.

For example: ANTs? Really? Who here actually enjoyed ANT duty, when it came up infrequently? We have a background resource system that fills similar roles, but doesn't require the use of the most boring and useless vehicle in the game.

And what about base capture? How is a multi-cap system any less "tactical" than the cap & hold system or LLU system we had before? You call it domination, but what was cap & hold but a kind of king of the hill where 20 guys sit around in a tiny control room for 15 minutes? What was LLU but a kind of capture the flag? There, I broke your sacred cows down into simple "dumb" gameplay styles. Does that make the original planetside dumbed down?

Planetside is a shooter game. By definition, it's main objectives are to shoot, fly and shoot, or drive and shoot. But much of the games true quality came out with massive coordination and cooperation. Tank columns, hot drops, sunderer convoys, and everything in between. That's what made Planetside what it is, and that's all still in there, and it may be better than ever. (I believe it will be.)

So please, cut the self-pitying crap, at least until you can actually experience it in beta. We've seen only a small fraction of what's going on, but what's more important is that it's getting attention and people are liking it. I'm sure you won't get everything you want in a game, just as I am not. But one thing I think we all should want is for the game to be successful, to get the attention it needs and deserves so that it doesn't wind up like it's predecessor. I'm willing to give up some things for that, because I have faith in the developers and in the aspects of the original that kept me in the game. How about you?

Wise words: You can't always get what you want but you may find, sometimes, you get what you need.

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by Haro

For example: ANTs? Really? Who here actually enjoyed ANT duty, when it came up infrequently? We have a background resource system that fills similar roles, but doesn't require the use of the most boring and useless vehicle in the game.

Actually, in-fight ANT situations were great. Just because you didn't like that for whatever (justified) reason doesn't mean you should deny it to people liking it, provided it's not gonna hamper your own gameplay.
That's imho what we should try to think of (instead of insulting each others), additional objectives/tactics not impacting to what I call "the zerg", refering to main, fast paces, base fights that are going to occur

[Eyeklops]

Originally Posted by Kalbuth

Actually, in-fight ANT situations were great. Just because you didn't like that for whatever (justified) reason doesn't mean you should deny it to people liking it, provided it's not gonna hamper your own gameplay.
That's imho what we should try to think of (instead of insulting each others), additional objectives/tactics not impacting to what I call "the zerg", refering to main, fast paces, base fights that are going to occur

Really? 90% of ant runs were boring as fuck and annoying. And of the 10% that were exciting, 75% of that time was a boring drive/ride in a Lodestar. So as far as game mechanics goes, the ANT runs were about the worst bang-for-the-buck in all of PS1. They probably are about equal to killing gens on uncontested continents as far as "Thrill" goes. At least killing a gen involves blowing shit up. No, I cannot agree, TFG ants are gone.

[Kalbuth]

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

Really? 90% of ant runs were boring as fuck and annoying. And of the 10% that were exciting, 75% of that time was a boring drive/ride in a Lodestar. So as far as game mechanics goes, the ANT runs were about the worst bang-for-the-buck in all of PS1. They probably are about equal to killing gens on uncontested continents as far as "Thrill" goes. At least killing a gen involves blowing shit up. No, I cannot agree, TFG ants are gone.

"I don't like gameplay X so I'm gonna pee on anyone that might like it"
Look, I don't care much what your combat preference is, case in point is that I, and many other, would like to see more variety than "capture this, then capture this, then capture that". I'm not preventing you to do so. Like in ps1, you would easily leave the ant job to others and keep on your own fun.
Btw, to repeat, I don't care much if ant is gone or not. I'm wondering what has to be done in ps2 besides endless capturing of points