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View Poll Results: How should population modifiers work?
No pop modifiers. 16 19.51%
Pop modifiers for Equipment Cost 26 31.71%
Pop modifiers for Resource Collection Rate 28 34.15%
Pop modifiers for Respawn Timers 30 36.59%
Pop modifiers for Equipment Timers 22 26.83%
Pop modifiers for Health 9 10.98%
Pop modifiers for Damage 5 6.10%
Pop modifiers should be based on floating averages calculated over the most recent day to week 9 10.98%
Pop modifiers should be based on floating averages calculated over the most recent day or less 15 18.29%
Pop modifers should be based on instant player-counts 34 41.46%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-20, 03:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #1
kaffis
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Population bonuses/penalties?


In Planetside, there were bonuses and penalties based on relative empire population as a percentage of the total pop.

Empires fighting outnumbered would get bonus health and damage (IIRC), empires with a population advantage would get a penalty to health and damage.

Should such a practice continue into Planetside 2, and if so, what kinds of systems should it entail?

Should bonuses be offered to disadvantaged empires? Or penalties applied to advantaged ones? Or both?

What form should the modifiers take? Bonuses or penalties applied to resources gain? Equipment cost (in resources)? Health? Damage? Equipment timers? Respawn timers?

How should the populations be counted for such metrics -- should it be instant (who has more players on RIGHT NOW)? Should it be a floating average, or a weighted floating average (who has more unique players over the last day/week? Or who has the most player-hours over the last day/week?)?

Should there be no modifiers based on population at all, and just rely on statistics or recruitment to balance it out? Should the modifiers have an effect only for new players, to encourage the balance to be upheld by skewing the preferences of new players, or should it apply to everybody, as a sort of handicap?
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Old 2012-06-20, 03:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #2
Bags
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
In Planetside, there were bonuses and penalties based on relative empire population as a percentage of the total pop.

Empires fighting outnumbered would get bonus health and damage (IIRC), empires with a population advantage would get a penalty to health and damage.
I don't recall this happening at all. I just remember the underdog getting more XP. I think bonus health came from having a cave mod, but there was never bonus damage.

And the game should never penalize or buff in the form of damage or health due to faction imbalance.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #3
kaffis
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Hrm. Okay, you might be right. My memory's hazy, I haven't played in over 5 years. Either way, XP or Health/Damage...
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
Otleaz
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Troop distribution is part of the game so you can't make it based off of anything but players per continent.

I think the best way to handle it is capture times are increased based on how many more players you have. If you have two times as many players, increase the capture time by 200%.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:23 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
kaffis
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by Otleaz View Post
Troop distribution is part of the game so you can't make it based off of anything but players per continent.

I think the best way to handle it is capture times are increased based on how many more players you have. If you have two times as many players, increase the capture time by 200%.
This is a means I hadn't considered. Interesting. Not sure how I feel about it aside from that, yet.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
Saifoda
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


I don't think there should be any negative modifiers for population -- there shouldn't be anything that punishes people for playing just because other people are playing, but if you are playing for the underdog empire then you should get xp or resource boost (dunno about the health thing) and/or maybe reduced resource costs for equipment and vehicles.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #7
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


only thing i see possible is a small xp bonus, like ps1. the individual soldier should never be more powerfull because his playing the underdog. includes respawn/resource income and equipment cost.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #8
kaffis
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by jabber View Post
only thing i see possible is a small xp bonus, like ps1. the individual soldier should never be more powerfull because his playing the underdog. includes respawn/resource income and equipment cost.
I tend not to favor XP bonuses, because they have no influence or effect in the immediate term, nor do they operate as an incentive for max-rank characters.

The latter part may not be an issue based on the claimed depth of the cert tree, but we can't really judge that yet. It's also worth noting that xp bonuses aren't good incentives for players who have certed everything they *care* about, even if they're not max rank yet.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:25 PM   [Ignore Me] #9
Khrakhan
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Respawn timers I feel are the only viable option here. That way the underdogs will respawn faster making up for the fact that they are outnumbered and make it to where the 'overdog' feels as if they're still fighting against an empire and not just the stragglin remains of one.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by Khrakhan View Post
Respawn timers I feel are the only viable option here. That way the underdogs will respawn faster making up for the fact that they are outnumbered and make it to where the 'overdog' feels as if they're still fighting against an empire and not just the stragglin remains of one.
This is, indeed, the reason I think they have the potential to be the most effective modifier. However, equipment timers and equipment costs (or rates of resource gain, as the inverse of equipment cost) follow similar arguments, just to point out.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:35 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by kaffis View Post
This is, indeed, the reason I think they have the potential to be the most effective modifier. However, equipment timers and equipment costs (or rates of resource gain, as the inverse of equipment cost) follow similar arguments, just to point out.
Yeah but the problem with that is that it hinders players a little more than just the respawn timers. I dont want to have to pay more resources just because my team happens to have more players
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:27 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


I voted no population modifiers because I still have hope that we will be able to move servers whenever we want to.
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Old 2012-06-20, 04:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
Otleaz
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr View Post
I voted no population modifiers because I still have hope that we will be able to move servers whenever we want to.
Yeah, because everyone switching servers when they are outnumbered will fix things.
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Old 2012-06-20, 05:45 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by Otleaz View Post
Yeah, because everyone switching servers when they are outnumbered will fix things.
The thing is I believe people will gravitate towards servers where there are good fights, and if you dont want a very busy server that option would be open to you. Allowing an individual/group/entire outfit to move from server to server would allow those people to enjoy the fight they want and not necessarily what is dictated by a stagnant locked server.

If my empire is overpowering everyone because we have the most people, this isnt necessarily the kind of fun I would want.
If my empire is outnumbered and the killwhores are destroying us with impunity again this isnt necessarily fun if its going to be an everyday occurance if my side doesnt have enough people. I ran into this playing warhammer online which is a pvp dominated game. My side was greatly outnumbered and we got our asses beat daily. This wasnt any fun and couldnt be avoided because we were server locked.
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Old 2012-06-20, 05:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
Otleaz
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Re: Population bonuses/penalties?


Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr View Post
The thing is I believe people will gravitate towards servers where there are good fights, and if you dont want a very busy server that option would be open to you. Allowing an individual/group/entire outfit to move from server to server would allow those people to enjoy the fight they want and not necessarily what is dictated by a stagnant locked server.

If my empire is overpowering everyone because we have the most people, this isnt necessarily the kind of fun I would want.
If my empire is outnumbered and the killwhores are destroying us with impunity again this isnt necessarily fun if its going to be an everyday occurance if my side doesnt have enough people. I ran into this playing warhammer online which is a pvp dominated game. My side was greatly outnumbered and we got our asses beat daily. This wasnt any fun and couldnt be avoided because we were server locked.
"If it is 75vs100, why stick around?" Says the casual gamer.
"If it is 50vs100, why stick around?" Says the weekend warrior.
"If it is 25vs100, why stick around?" Says the hardcore gamer.
"If it will be 1vs100, why should I join?" Says the one browsing the server list.

This is exactly how Guild wars 2 WvW turned out, and it is very similar to the way this will work. You can say people won't stick around if there is no real fight, but you would be DEAD wrong. If you don't force players into one server, or limit their ability to switch, this WILL happen.

The best they could do imo would be to make it so you can switch to a server every 24 hours unless your team is underpopulated.

Last edited by Otleaz; 2012-06-20 at 05:57 PM.
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