Religion

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Figment

It's great though, it's full of circle argumentation, full of plot holes, full of induction.

It's the same old arguments... it doesn't matter if it's a high school dropout or a triple-doctorate nuclear physicist. It's the same old silly crap and, therefor, is just boring.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Tonight, I watched a movie called Paul

Awesome movie. When it first came out a bunch of religious people jumped online because they were offended. You seem to have taken it better.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

What I can't understand is why, through the absolute logic and purity of knowledge... Reading these forums.. understanding and accepting what others have said... truly trying to believe that I am wrong.... Why do I still feel I am right?

I imagine it's an emotional connection. Read this first. It presents a theory that is very old. The longer a person does something the harder it is for them to quit. Habits and ideologies can get ingrained into one's thought patterns and even with all the proof in the world they can't reconcile the problems. In that article he talks about people who went through such situations like you might be experiencing.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

I am very easily influenced in life.

This can be a big part of it also. Some people are extremely skeptical while others tend to believe things they are told. This can be as simple as reading something in the news. Some people believe whatever they read from one media source. Others get skeptical and will look for secondary sources until they are satisfied. Not sure what causes one or the other.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

You have forgotten the best part.

I have finished saying what I want to say. I have said it hundreds of times and nothing, no matter what, will change any belief, ever.

Repeating something doesn't make it true. I think you missed that concept when people were discussing the problems of religions. You have people repeating the same thing over and over to themselves with no proof until they believe it unquestionably and block out even the most objectively obvious criticisms. The thought that what they're saying might not be true is too much to handle.

To take this out of context for a second, this is part of a long philosophical debate of is ignorance bliss which is too long to go into here. But this is a nice article on the subject. Keeping people ignorant to protect what they can't understand or what might hurt them emotionally to know. Very broad ideas.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Free will brother. Free mother fucking will.

I don't have time to go into it, but you realize free will is simply just a random word to describe a concept that someone thought about right? Commenting "we have free will" or "we don't have free will" is a pointless exercise in futility. You're using it right now to replace the word "apathy" or the state of not caring.

[RawketLawnchair]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Justifying your indoctrinated delusions and then calling it free will, priceless.

Not only that but, free will and T.V. induced indoctrination do not go hand in hand. You are only given the idea that you have free will, where there will always be someone waiting there to make money off of the ignorance you portray.

Also Duke, if science/tech is constantly wrong, can I have your computer?
Don't think you need it anymore since its so flawed and unholy.

[ItsTheSheppy]

And here we see, I think, the true problem with 'moderate' religions, and why even the gentle-jesus-meek-and-mild form of religion needs to go away. It poisons minds.

Here is Duke, who has more or less yielded the floor. He cannot defend his position; every time he tries to, the cold logical deconstruction of his points leaves him with no recourse. He cannot answer the calls for evidence, he cannot explain the logical fallacies, or the rest.

But he's poisoned. He cannot accept that he lives in a world where religion is wrong, and freely ignores all information and evidence that challenges those beliefs. It is brainwashing and you need look no further than his posts to see just how powerful and, at least for me, scary it is.

Here is a man who has lost the ability to think for himself, and the saddest thing is that he's in good company. He represents the majority of humans on this earth. Far from an aberration, he's the standard. This won't change overnight, or in our lifetimes, but this is why it's important to always have these conversations. So that slowly, over time, we draw the poison out of the bloodstream that one day the species may be cured of it.

[RawketLawnchair]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

And here we see, I think, the true problem with 'moderate' religions, and why even the gentle-jesus-meek-and-mild form of religion needs to go away. It poisons minds.

Here is Duke, who has more or less yielded the floor. He cannot defend his position; every time he tries to, the cold logical deconstruction of his points leaves him with no recourse. He cannot answer the calls for evidence, he cannot explain the logical fallacies, or the rest.

But he's poisoned. He cannot accept that he lives in a world where religion is wrong, and freely ignores all information and evidence that challenges those beliefs. It is brainwashing and you need look no further than his posts to see just how powerful and, at least for me, scary it is.

Here is a man who has lost the ability to think for himself, and the saddest thing is that he's in good company. He represents the majority of humans on this earth. Far from an aberration, he's the standard. This won't change overnight, or in our lifetimes, but this is why it's important to always have these conversations. So that slowly, over time, we draw the poison out of the bloodstream that one day the species may be cured of it.

If you wrote a book, I'd read it for sure.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

And here we see, I think, the true problem with 'moderate' religions, and why even the gentle-jesus-meek-and-mild form of religion needs to go away. It poisons minds.

Here is Duke, who has more or less yielded the floor. He cannot defend his position; every time he tries to, the cold logical deconstruction of his points leaves him with no recourse. He cannot answer the calls for evidence, he cannot explain the logical fallacies, or the rest.

But he's poisoned. He cannot accept that he lives in a world where religion is wrong, and freely ignores all information and evidence that challenges those beliefs. It is brainwashing and you need look no further than his posts to see just how powerful and, at least for me, scary it is.

Here is a man who has lost the ability to think for himself, and the saddest thing is that he's in good company. He represents the majority of humans on this earth. Far from an aberration, he's the standard. This won't change overnight, or in our lifetimes, but this is why it's important to always have these conversations. So that slowly, over time, we draw the poison out of the bloodstream that one day the species may be cured of it.

Well said.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by RawketLawnchair

If you wrote a book, I'd read it for sure.

If you want to read a really good, very frankly-written book on the subject, I suggest Christopher Hitchens' . When I say religions are poisonous, I am in fact cribbing from Hitchens' work. Highly recommended reading.

I will not write a book because I'm nowhere near smart enough, I'm too lazy, and the world is filled with too many wonderful video games for me to make the time.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by elfailo

Because you have the intellect of a pterodactyl.

/gasoline@fire

Hey now, it takes a lot of faith to fly without feathers.

[Sirisian]

I was reading /r/atheism and stumbled across this. This could very well be duke in a few months if he sat down and read that better parts of /r/atheism for a few weeks.

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Hey now, it takes a lot of faith to fly without feathers.

Good point. Probably an ostrich with his head in the ground. </deep>

[Baneblade]

Ostriches don't actually do that, well not the way commonly implied.

[Elude]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Seeing Dexter, 4400, Paul and many others... I have come to the conclusion that people are utterly influenced by TV... What they say is golden to some people.......Not to sound overly ..whatever it is... But these three shows I have mentioned, they have a significant impact on how you see the world.

I stand up for what I believe in. I will never stop doing that. Ever.

Free will. Free fucking will. Do what you will with it. I am.

There is nothing wrong with influence, we'd be long dead without it.

You think you have free will but people who bind themselves to a specific brand, belief, or perspective and are unwilling to change are merely just slaves controlled by the boundaries they setup in the past that they fear to break because it might destroy what they once used to identify themselves as an individual separate from everyone else.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

we don't know about planetside 2, just like we don't know about MY God... or any God.

But we do know about Planetside 2 and many gameplay aspects of it, you don't have to experience it to know how it works. We also know about your god (assuming you're of christian belief) and many other gods.

You use the so-called universal god explained by philosophers and pretend it's the same as yours when it's not. God may not be disprovable but the christian belief can be.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Why do I still feel I am right?

Because you're ignorant.

[Baneblade]

It isn't a fight.

[Effective]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

I have been a standing force in this topic. I am not wrong.

Tonight, I watched a movie called Paul and then a series called 4400. I seen the logical 'point-of-view' from these directors point's of view. I understand them.

I am very easily influenced in life. I, like many others.. just don't know... Fellas and ladies... we don't know about planetside 2, just like we don't know about MY God... or any God...

Through the discussion that is this thread, I have had my eyes opened to so many possibilities.... Everything we have learned and everything that humans as a race have accomplished.... it is just simply amazing.

Seeing Dexter, 4400, Paul and many others... I have come to the conclusion that people are utterly influenced by TV... What they say is golden to some people.......Not to sound overly ..whatever it is... But these three shows I have mentioned, they have a significant impact on how you see the world.

What I can't understand is why, through the absolute logic and purity of knowledge... Reading these forums.. understanding and accepting what others have said... truly trying to believe that I am wrong.... Why do I still feel I am right?

I have read through this forums, and man it just seems so fucking perfect to accept the logical answer.... Everyone is doing it.

I stand up for what I believe in. I will never stop doing that. Ever.

As cliche as this sounds............. 'May' God forgive you.

I have said many times before that " I may not be right " ... I was wrong.

You sirs, are wrong. And you are too damn stubborn AND IGNORANT to see past your own fucking logic.

I don't have to prove my faith or myself to any of you any longer. I've fought my fight very well and no one can fully dispute me with words, they sure as hell can't do it with fists or any other object for that matter.

Free will. Free fucking will. Do what you will with it. I am.

Not really a standing force so much as unwilling to see past your own fear.

I can't really comment, I don't watch TV, at all.

Well we do know about planetside 2 really, it has considerable more evidence then religions do. That being said, not knowing something is not evidence to believe in something. God of the gaps.

I have never watched those 3 TV shows, nor do I believe they directly influence anything (that sounds an awful like politicians trying to say video games make kids do violent things).

You claim to feel right, but yet, you keep coming back here. Over and over. As if to reaffirm your beliefs for fear of losing them. If your belief is so strong why bother coming back? Most of us have made it abundantly clear we don't believe in your religions fairy tales, some in nicer words then others.

No, not everyone is doing it. The majority of the united states is still religious in one form or another. Pure atheist, make up a very small percentage of the population. I realized I was in atheist in grade school, while living in the bible belt. A place where it can be decidedly uncomfortable to be an atheist.

Congratz, stand up for what you believe in, even if you don't actually undestand anything about your own religion. Don't expect us to follow along though.

If God were actually real. Caring if he would forgive me is alot like caring if Hitler would do the same.

I don't care if you believe I'm wrong. Your opinion is just as valid as someone complaining to me about why I don't believe in bigfoot or the chupacabra.

You worship a God, who in Genesis, banished (almost typed banned lol) Adam and Eve for eating from the Tree of Knowledge, hence no longer becoming "ignorant" and becoming self aware. So when it comes down to it, you worship ignorance. And then call other people ignorant? I feel sorry that you actually believe the stuff you're saying.

As for being stubborn, here's the definition. Having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, esp. in spite of good arguments or reasons.

You have yet to provide a good argument or reason, unlike many people in this thread who have tried to show you your own errors. You are the very definition of stubborn as you have stated you will NEVER change your beliefs.

Indeed you don't have to prove your faith! You never had to do. Unless you wanted us to believe in your personal delusions that is. By "fighting well" I supposed you mean flailing your arms angrily. You never really had a point just "I believe in God, why don't you?" No one here would try to convince you with fists/force. Who do you think we are? Christians?

You think you have free will?

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

When I offer something, When I say something that is more to you than you can see with your own eyes, you immediately have to dismiss it. It hurts your brain if you don't try to defile it and that is why you fight this so strongly.

It's not dismissing. You're assuming we haven't analyzed critically what you said. In most cases we have. In others we have heard your philosophical quandry before (they come up in religious discussions frequently) and have analyzed it previously. Regarding your last statement, "It hurts your brain if you don't try to defile it and that is why you fight this so strongly" did you mean "It hurts your brain if you try to defile it and that is why you fight this so strongly"? that's more of a hope than the truth. For myself analyzing your questions and thoughts brings curiosity and not any form of mental anguish. (When you read your last line is that how you feel when reading our statements?)

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Sometimes you just have to let go. I know some of you can't and that is okay, it will come in time.. and if you can fight THAT logic, you are a smarter person than I am.

Let go of what? Overly broad emotional pleas like this aren't effective. Is there something you let go of that you believe we (non-theists) haven't? Do you want us to let go of reasoning? Let go of our skepticism? What specifically should be let go, and what is your justification? (Might be a catch-22 if you say to let go of reasoning since to let go of it would require a reasoned justification which would be a paradox of sorts. One that would be futile to play out).

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

everyone jumps on the band-wagon to say im wrong...

What you "say" is being analyzed more than proving you wrong. I for one have been providing links to help your critical thinking skills. It's a way to see how I look at things in a way. When I'm curious about how I'm wording things or if I'm saying something wrong I often look for articles on the subject to gain a wider perspective. How did you react to the article about the doomsday prophecy people? Any parallels to your life or your way of thinking? You quoted what I said, but did you analyze the article and really think about it? Those are real people with very similar strong held beliefs.