Eurika! TTK and vehicle changes explained. - Page 3

Elthbert · 2012-05-24, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

What?

Yeah, no other games with vehiclecombat, or infantry and vehicles.

Not like planetside. A Vehicle in say battlefield is not a force multiplier like it is in planetside. Further, you don't have whole combats of mixed vehicles in varying terrain with infantry and the like. No, PS's vehicle combat is unique.

Even in the pitiful pops it has today, you ca still occasionally get a real field battle with mixed armour, light vehicles and infantry.

captainkapautz · 2012-05-24, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Elthbert

Not like planetside. A Vehicle in say battlefield is not a force multiplier like it is in planetside.

Depends which BF you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Elthbert

Further, you don't have whole combats of mixed vehicles in varying terrain with infantry and the like. No, PS's vehicle combat is unique.

Bullshit, every BF to date had combined arms combat, from BF1942 up to BF3.

Elthbert · 2012-05-24, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Bullshit, every BF to date had combined arms combat, from BF1942 up to BF3.

Not like Planetside. Because the "combined arms" are just not that unique.

Let me put it a different way, if vehicles were as unimpressive in real life as they are in BF they would have never been used in combat and all combat vehicles would just be transports to the battle field for the infantry.

I never had that feeling in planetside, every vehicle had its niche, and that niche mattered, and, could completely alter the outcome of a large battle.

SupaFlea · 2012-05-24, 05:24 PM

So basicly if you have say a 8 man squad armed with AV rockets, with a bit of communication they could destory 4 tanks at the same time or 2 if it takes more rockets than c4. so I guess convoys and tanks out in the open will be scarce since 8 soldiers can hide behind a hill or in terrain alot better than a huge vehicle.

Another scenario
a 2 man team 1 arms with rocket other c4, they quickly sprint apart so the turret can only shoot 1 of them, the rocket guy gets his round off and get shot and kill the other finishes the tank off with c4.

Lets not start with how much damage a couple of cloakers could do since not every tank is gonna have someone with DL unless it becomes a crutch like PS1.

I played PS1 for about 7 years and to me vehicles were supposed to be deadly and something for even a squad of soldiers with AV to think twice about engaging, thats why vehicles were the best thing for taking out vehicles. I can see they are trying to edge a lil towards BF3 where a solo player can survive out in the open if they are smart but the whole idea for Planetside for me was teamwork.
How fast will a max crash be nullified if tanks are taken out with 2 C4 which an "Agile" can carry.

captainkapautz · 2012-05-24, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Elthbert

Not like Planetside. Because the "combined arms" are just not that unique.

Let me put it a different way, if vehicles were as unimpressive in real life as they are in BF they would have never been used in combat and all combat vehicles would just be transports to the battle field for the infantry.

I never had that feeling in planetside, every vehicle had its niche, and that niche mattered, and, could completely alter the outcome of a large battle.

Have you ever played any BF before 3?
Did you even play 3 or are you just parroting what other people have said before?

Elthbert · 2012-05-24, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by SupaFlea

So basicly if you have say a 8 man squad armed with AV rockets, with a bit of communication they could destory 4 tanks at the same time or 2 if it takes more rockets than c4. so I guess convoys and tanks out in the open will be scarce since 8 soldiers can hide behind a hill or in terrain alot better than a huge vehicle.

Another scenario
a 2 man team 1 arms with rocket other c4, they quickly sprint apart so the turret can only shoot 1 of them, the rocket guy gets his round off and get shot and kill the other finishes the tank off with c4.

Lets not start with how much damage a couple of cloakers could do since not every tank is gonna have someone with DL unless it becomes a crutch like PS1.

I played PS1 for about 7 years and to me vehicles were supposed to be deadly and something for even a squad of soldiers with AV to think twice about engaging, thats why vehicles were the best thing for taking out vehicles. I can see they are trying to edge a lil towards BF3 where a solo player can survive out in the open if they are smart but the whole idea for Planetside for me was teamwork.
How fast will a max crash be nullified if tanks are taken out with 2 C4 which an "Agile" can carry.

I agree its a definite swing towards infantry... I hope that this is just that they are balancing aircraft first, and then moving on to other vehicles.

Elthbert · 2012-05-24, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Have you ever played any BF before 3?
Did you even play 3 or are you just parroting what other people have said before?

I have not played 3 but a few times... I played the others quite a bit, BF 1942 a lot.

So I acknowledge, BF3 may have fixed this a bit. not saying it has, I just haven't played it enough to form an opinion.

Toppopia · 2012-05-24, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Have you ever played any BF before 3?
Did you even play 3 or are you just parroting what other people have said before?

i have played Bad Company 1 and 2, i like 2 alot more than 3, mostly because enemies can't spam anti-air weapons, and killing helicopters requires skill in bad company 2, not just who can equip a stinger and shoot.

And yes, i know you were talking to a specific person, but i felt like sharing my life story.

Elthbert · 2012-05-24, 06:12 PM

I think the idea that these quick ttk are "explained" by a desire to allow rapid movements are BS. Infantry being queen of the battlefield does not lead to rapid movement, it leads to trench warfare.

captainkapautz · 2012-05-24, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

i have played Bad Company 1 and 2, i like 2 alot more than 3, mostly because enemies can't spam anti-air weapons, and killing helicopters requires skill in bad company 2, not just who can equip a stinger and shoot.

And yes, i know you were talking to a specific person, but i felt like sharing my life story.

LoL @ Helicopters in BF.

Funny how you bring up the easy to kill BF3 chopper, as that had to be fixed with buffing missiles or nerfing the chopper, dunno which, because a chopper piloted by people who know how to use used to literally destoy everything on the map.

Toppopia · 2012-05-24, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

LoL @ Helicopters in BF.

Funny how you bring up the easy to kill BF3 chopper, as that had to be fixed with buffing missiles or nerfing the chopper, dunno which, because a chopper piloted by people who know how to use used to literally destoy everything on the map.

I liked them better in Bad Company 2, but me and a friend flew a whole Caspien Border Rush as attackers for the whole game, got over 30 kills in the chopper.

Stardouser · 2012-05-24, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

i have played Bad Company 1 and 2, i like 2 alot more than 3, mostly because enemies can't spam anti-air weapons, and killing helicopters requires skill in bad company 2, not just who can equip a stinger and shoot.

And yes, i know you were talking to a specific person, but i felt like sharing my life story.

BF3 choppers are overpowered for a couple of reasons:

1. Both pilot and gunner get countermeasures. Stingers are annoyance due to lock-tone spam but that is all.
2. The CROWS MG on tanks and the mounted .50 on jeeps are crap and don't threaten choppers enough.
3. SOFLAMs are too easy to avoid by learning to fly a pattern that takes you past a tree or something every few seconds. SOFLAMS are crap anyway, they ought to work like real life laser designators, they should NOT be working against aircraft unless you have the skill to use it to guide a missile to an aircraft in flight.

Despite what I just said, choppers were nerfed from BF2. BF2 choppers could quite easily rape for 100 kills in maps like Sharqi. However, the key is that whether a chopper has 30 kills or 100, people hate seeing a chopper crew on the top of the leaderboard with 0 or 1 deaths, and that's still the case even if kills are more often 30 or 40 than 100.

Toppopia · 2012-05-24, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

BF3 choppers are overpowered for a couple of reasons:

1. Both pilot and gunner get countermeasures. Stingers are annoyance due to lock-tone spam but that is all.
2. The CROWS MG on tanks and the mounted .50 on jeeps are crap and don't threaten choppers enough.
3. SOFLAMs are too easy to avoid by learning to fly a pattern that takes you past a tree or something every few seconds. SOFLAMS are crap anyway, they ought to work like real life laser designators, they should NOT be working against aircraft unless you have the skill to use it to guide a missile to an aircraft in flight.

i was talking about the transport choppers, but in BF3 they were horrible to use where as BC2 they were fun and actually deadly.

Stardouser · 2012-05-24, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

i was talking about the transport choppers, but in BF3 they were horrible to use where as BC2 they were fun and actually deadly.

Oh. Well, engineers sitting in transport choppers repairing in-flight is a very stupid mechanic that ruins suspension of disbelief and proper combat imo.

Toppopia · 2012-05-24, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Oh. Well, engineers sitting in transport choppers repairing in-flight is a very stupid mechanic that ruins suspension of disbelief and proper combat imo.

It got worse when they gave said engineers XP for repairing the choppers...

One awesome thing about attacking transport choppers, getting a LMG and shooting at them, only worked well in BC2, but got quite a few kills doing that, even killed the pilot at one point.