An XP change in GU13 - Page 5

Stomps · 2013-07-03, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

That is certainly a good change, but what personally annoys me much more is the constant xp spam displayed in the middle of the screen.
I mean wtf, let me turn that shit off. Same goes for sound. If you place a sunderer-ams in a good spot you have a friggin' slot machine going on with "sonic catches a ring" sounds blaring in your ear and the screen being spammed with "+5xp".

So i take this opportunity to once more ask: LET ME TURN THAT SHIT OFF PLEASE.

Edit:

You're such a bailer.

On a more serious note: Why do you care if someone now gets xp or a kill where they didn't before? I mean, that is the same argument as before, just turned around. You can still suicide as much as you want, but because now someone might get xp for it you are upset? Really?

The whole point of changes like this is to tone down cheap play and asshole behaviour, which this game is promoting enough as it is. If the result is that sometimes people get xp for not really doing something, why not? That is still better then promoting douchebaggery and people being denied xp who actually did something.

See this is kinda what I expected, just assuming my objections are from being nailed. And you yourself say turn it around, well turn it around another way and look at it from the pov of the receiver.

Id like to know how I turn it off, its going to turn the already unreliable stats into a clusterfk of unreliability.

Scenario 1, im sitting in a sundy in the zerg camp watching the upper floor of a tower - some guy appears, I get a lucky shot on him and through nothing ive done he slips and suicides, bingo 1 kill for me I dont deserve. I did nothing to effect his death yet I get rewarded a whole kill of XP for 1 lucky shot. Fake.

Scenario 2, im bursting my max for king and glory at some galaxy approaching a base, they all bail as normal, maybe two or three hit obstacles and die, bingo I get the kills, I dont want them on my record, how fake is that?

Scenario 3, I get a few hits on someones flash while they run, they hit a small bump of doom completely out of my sight, flip and suicide, another kill for me i didnt earn.

Scenar...I could go on but as i said im sure these things will make themselves evident but i doubt many will complain and will actively rally against anyone objecting, i mean its free kills right? Douchebag strawmen abound, slipped on a banana? boom someone gets a free kill

... seriously its going to affect many just normal areas of play, if it was only pilots then sure, thats a problem needing a solution but the others, no, i dont want all these freak kills I dont deserve and didnt make a serious effort to win the XP from.

handoutside has arrived!

and i can already think of 1 way to cheat the pilot bailing (no nothing to do with ejectors or LAs), will keep schtum on that and see if it works first tho.

SternLX · 2013-07-03, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Stomps

See this is kinda what I expected, just assuming my objections are from being nailed. And you yourself say turn it around, well turn it around another way and look at it from the pov of the receiver.

...snipped for brevity...

handoutside has arrived!

and i can already think of 1 way to cheat the pilot bailing (no nothing to do with ejectors or LAs), will keep schtum on that and see if it works first tho.

Couldn't agree with you more Stomps. Handouts it is. Kinda reminds me of Welfare states.

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-07-07, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Stomps

See this is kinda what I expected, just assuming my objections are from being nailed. And you yourself say turn it around, well turn it around another way and look at it from the pov of the receiver.

Id like to know how I turn it off, its going to turn the already unreliable stats into a clusterfk of unreliability.

....

Scenar...I could go on but as i said im sure these things will make themselves evident but i doubt many will complain and will actively rally against anyone objecting, i mean its free kills right? Douchebag strawmen abound, slipped on a banana? boom someone gets a free kill

... seriously its going to affect many just normal areas of play, if it was only pilots then sure, thats a problem needing a solution but the others, no, i dont want all these freak kills I dont deserve and didnt make a serious effort to win the XP from.

handoutside has arrived!

and i can already think of 1 way to cheat the pilot bailing (no nothing to do with ejectors or LAs), will keep schtum on that and see if it works first tho.

There are only two options how to handle this problem:
Either people get something they didn't deserve (xp/kill for not killing someone), or people don't get something they deserve to get (no xp/kill due to logging/bailing). Not getting the xp you clearly should get is way more frustrating than someone else getting xp for me unjustified which i won't even notice.
Since both methods aren't flawless and perfect i find it absolutely logical to go with the method that creates the least amount of frustration.

But you assume the system will be that bad that you are basically constantly getting free kills and that...messes up your stats? Gives you xp? Not sure here, because that's where i lost you.
You seem to suggest it's better to have douchebag mechanics that mess up stats and deny xp than to have an attempt at fair mechanics that occassionally hand out free xp. And well, that is certainly not my opinion.

Btw, personally i would simply remove bailing from vehicles that are not standing still and giving the log-off a timer (like in classic mmorpgs). No need for any broken mechanics here really.

Stomps · 2013-07-07, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

There are only two options how to handle this problem:
Either people get something they didn't deserve (xp/kill for not killing someone), or people don't get something they deserve to get (no xp/kill due to logging/bailing). Not getting the xp you clearly should get is way more frustrating than someone else getting xp for me unjustified which i won't even notice.
Since both methods aren't flawless and perfect i find it absolutely logical to go with the method that creates the least amount of frustration.

But you assume the system will be that bad that you are basically constantly getting free kills and that...messes up your stats? Gives you xp? Not sure here, because that's where i lost you.
You seem to suggest it's better to have douchebag mechanics that mess up stats and deny xp than to have an attempt at fair mechanics that occassionally hand out free xp. And well, that is certainly not my opinion.

Btw, personally i would simply remove bailing from vehicles that are not standing still and giving the log-off a timer (like in classic mmorpgs). No need for any broken mechanics here really.

your words not mine - and again as predicted I have to reply to defend my argument, cant you just accept my opinion and be done with it?

the only thing worth pointing out here is repeating part of what i said, if it was only pilots then sure, thats a problem needing a solution but the others, no - there is no problem with swarms of people jumping out of towers/rocks/buildings whatever to avoid the kill, there is no problem with people fleeing in whatever land vehicle and doing something stupid etc etc, it only ever was a problem of pilots bailing but somehow thats translated to give everyone handouts for others stupidity.

Sunrock · 2013-07-02, 02:29 AM

Well might be worth investing in an ejector seat now

PredatorFour · 2013-07-02, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Well might be worth investing in an ejector seat now

Tip dont logout! Lol

No need to get ejector seat just make sure you get them and if there's more of them, it don't matter if they kill you really does it. You were going to suicide anyway which is a death.

Sunrock · 2013-07-02, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Tip dont logout! Lol

No need to get ejector seat just make sure you get them and if there's more of them, it don't matter if they kill you really does it. You were going to suicide anyway which is a death.

Eh, right... But its not about your K/D its about denying the enemy exp, IE certs.

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

What about the REDEPLOY? Redeploy is meant to not affect your death stat in any way... so what if someone rolls LA, jumps out of the aircraft, lands and redeploys? Will that be an "credited kill" if you damaged his aircraft?

What if non-LA players notice they're taking damage, so they start redeploying, then exit their vehicle with one or two seconds to go... they would have died, but they redeployed, so kill credited or not?

A redeploy count down is reseted if you take damage. But if you jump out and don't die then redeploy then I can not see way it would count as a death. I can't see anything wrong with using a "ghetto parachute" to cheat the enemy out of a kill. The ESF can just "lolpod" you if he likes anyway.

Akrasjel Lanate · 2013-07-02, 03:04 AM

Nice idea

Gatekeeper · 2013-07-02, 03:36 AM

Good change, thanks.

Baptist · 2013-07-02, 04:05 AM

I don't fly, so this doesn't effect me much, however I'd like to think out loud for a second.

I'm a Light Assault, and I'm flying in my Reaver, suddenly I get into a fight I'm about to lose and have to bail, I use my Jet Packs to land safely taking no damage, and notice the enemy ESF is turning on me for the Kill angered I got away, If I now log out, will the enemy ESF get a Kill?

From the notes I expect the Obvious answer is yes, but people will still be able to bail as Light assaults and potentially get away without dying, would a better way of solving this not simply be, unless you have ejector seat enabled, you have to land the craft to exit.

The Log off part is just sweet :-)

SternLX · 2013-07-02, 04:11 AM

Adding to what I posted earlier after reading some other notes. The timer between doing damage and the target taking a suicide better be really damn short before a kill and xp are awarded. Otherwise it cheapens the experience of earning a kill and xp.

If I had my druthers the TTK in this game would be increased 50% across the board. To easy to kill and be killed now as it is. The fights need to be drawn out a bit more like in PS1. Currently it feels more like Quakeside.

Boomzor · 2013-07-02, 04:22 AM

Just tossing the question out there... what would be too long a time(r)?

15 seconds?
30?
A minute?

Let's think about hypothetical scenarios of what could happen during that time frame. Scenarios which could quite possible yield unexpected and by many accounts unwanted results.

What would feel like a cheap exploit of the new mechanic?

For instance the light assult bailing from an ESF as an entrypoint, as a means of transportation, who then is killed by a defending infantry man on the ground within the time limit.
Would that still count as a vehicle kill?

SKYHEX · 2013-07-02, 05:39 AM

EvilNinjadude has a point. I know how people will avoid this then, LA with drifter jets and redeploy. Although, honestly, that is pretty legit to me. Because a) they lived ater jumping out and b) survived outside or 10 seconds waiting or that redeploy. There still exists a possibility of me ramming/shooting them out of the sky, so I am cool with that.

As a dogfighter, this is a nice change, although since I honestly give nary a [insert profanity of your choice] about my K/D, it will be just + 100 XP for my effort/enemy laziness.

As to if and how it affects one stat padder, my opinion is this:

Shogun · 2013-07-02, 06:44 AM

i like the anti asshat xp denial patch so far, but we really need a dynamic xp distribution!

take a look at ps1 (sigh, again)!

shared xp for squads,
a really really great and refined support xp system that is not exploitable
shared xp for vehicle crew (minus passenger only seats)
dynamic xp for basecaptures based on amount of enemies and action.

those were perfect systems that rewarded the playstyles the game was meant to be played with!

WHY is nothing of this present in ps2?

i am especially pissed about the stupid approach of the support xp in ps2, and the lack of xp sharing! because it forces me to do what i don´t want to do, in order to get certs. i just can´t be a fulltime supporter and get a fair reward for it in ps2.

also, increase ALL hitpoints by 100%. the TTK is too low to balance anything right.

Dodgy Commando · 2013-07-02, 08:16 AM

What happens if you're chasing down the enemy and some random infanteer takes a potshot at him before he crashes/suicides in some way?

Granted this scenario shouldn't happen very often, although it could become more present as a result of this change, perhaps?

I think we need to know more about the timer that credits you the kill as last damage source. If you're serious about destroying enemy planes, you're presumably close on their tail. Then they either crash due to the pressure you're applying, or try to cheese you because you've won. As a result, my guess is that it'll be a short timer (< 30 secs).

But if the timer is so short, what is indeed to stop someone from gaining altitude before bailing (as mentioned earlier in the thread)?

At any rate, I don't fly often but I have experienced the frustration when your target crashes/bails. It's a good change, but I am curious as to how exactly it will be implemented.