SmedBlog: Harvestable Resources - Page 4

Duskguy · 2012-08-11, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Harasus

People will go to the frontline to fight, some will try to get behind enemy lines and cap areas. With this, some will go behind enemy lines, as far away from the fighting as possible, and start killing NPCs to get more score and hurt the enemy. They might not even bother capping because it is easier to just hit-n-run the same base over and over again. You can not expect people to guard every single base, especially when they are not even on the frontline. That would require guards 24/7 everywhere, and nobody would like it.

Heck, this could become the new way of grinding!

way i pictured it would be a tractor-like unit that moves to a specified location to help harvest/ steal some resources. they wouldnt power the economy, that would still be the capture points' role. these would be spawnable by say outfit leaders or something and wouldnt spawn ANY npc units, it would simply do its job while players attack or defend it.

not sure where you get the idea of npc camping for experience.

Blackwolf · 2012-08-11, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Harasus

People will go to the frontline to fight, some will try to get behind enemy lines and cap areas. With this, some will go behind enemy lines, as far away from the fighting as possible, and start killing NPCs to get more score and hurt the enemy. They might not even bother capping because it is easier to just hit-n-run the same base over and over again. You can not expect people to guard every single base, especially when they are not even on the frontline. That would require guards 24/7 everywhere, and nobody would like it.

Heck, this could become the new way of grinding!

Good points. Would also be tough in situations where your empire only has one base and your surrounded by the enemy. This would end your fight pretty quickly, which could be beneficial to the game rather then a hindrance actually.

However, making a foot hold becomes a problem if you are entirely reliant on your harvesters for resources. This would force full scale raids and well thought out plans to not only take a base as a beach head, but surrounding territory so that you can maintain a decent level of security over the harvesters while they work. Huh.

And actually, if your empire has a large area under it's control, chances are some teams running spec ops won't hinder production much. They might shut down a base or too at a time which would certainly slow the empire down. But if that empire had 4 other bases gathering resources at full speed?

There are problems with the idea, but I think it could work out well. And there is no doubt that it would add a layer of depth to the game and create more logistics for the players to handle.

Harasus · 2012-08-11, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Duskguy

way i pictured it would be a tractor-like unit that moves to a specified location to help harvest/ steal some resources. they wouldnt power the economy, that would still be the capture points' role. these would be spawnable by say outfit leaders or something and wouldnt spawn ANY npc units, it would simply do its job while players attack or defend it.

not sure where you get the idea of npc camping for experience.

And the point of them would be...? If they do not power the economy, they are useless. If they are useless, why would anyone attack/defend them?

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

Good points. Would also be tough in situations where your empire only has one base and your surrounded by the enemy. This would end your fight pretty quickly, which could be beneficial to the game rather then a hindrance actually.

However, making a foot hold becomes a problem if you are entirely reliant on your harvesters for resources. This would force full scale raids and well thought out plans to not only take a base as a beach head, but surrounding territory so that you can maintain a decent level of security over the harvesters while they work. Huh.

And actually, if your empire has a large area under it's control, chances are some teams running spec ops won't hinder production much. They might shut down a base or too at a time which would certainly slow the empire down. But if that empire had 4 other bases gathering resources at full speed?

There are problems with the idea, but I think it could work out well. And there is no doubt that it would add a layer of depth to the game and create more logistics for the players to handle.

Good points, I guess. I am just afraid that a well organised group could split themselves up in small squads and stop almost all production in the bases of a faction.
Overall, a big maybe on this. The game can work fine without this, just imagine that all resource gathering and transportation is done underground, and the only way to gain control of that is to take the base with the control panels.

Electrofreak · 2012-08-11, 06:35 PM

"Doo de doo de doo. Time to grab my trusty Gauss Rifle and kill some Vanu scum."
*click*
"YOU REQUIRE MORE VESPENE GAS."
"Awww damnit, again? Fine. I'll just spawn a Reaver, that doesn't need vespene."
*click*
"YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS."
"Son of a Bi-!!"

CardiffGreens · 2012-08-11, 06:36 PM

I like the idea of this - mostly because a) I get something to do rather than find new and hilarious ways of dying in game and b) the inevitable combine harvester races that we'll be organising once this goes live.

RoninOni · 2012-08-11, 06:38 PM

In the thread on AI Smedley posted about scripted AI...

I could definitely see that being leveraged with this Harvesting (and supply convoy?) idea, as no one want's to actually work do these tasks in game they're perfect for scripting.

So Smedley, if you read this, apply your 3rd AI idea here

Duskguy · 2012-08-11, 06:45 PM

@ Harasus
the point of them wouldnt be to fuel the economy, but to augment it, or hinder the enemy's.

im talking like boost speed of resource extraction from an allied facility and a percentage taken from an enemy facility.

because i find it very unlikely that any faction will have a complete abundance of all resources, and so sending one of these to help get a specific resource would have exceptional value.

hence not being pointless.

if they solely powered the economy, as you said, some lone soldier could go behind enemy lines and literally just end the game. and as you said, instead of capturing the resource facilities, people would just camp the extractor

however, i may have a balance between your idea and mine.
perhaps if the facility automatically generated say 50% of resources and the extractor extracted the other 50%. each facility would auto spawn ONE harvester when first taken over.
this would allow for soldiers to go behind enemy lines and destroy the harvesters rather than trying to take a facility which will show up on the map and take lots of time to take over.
after a harvester is destroyed, a player has to go to that facility and manually respawn it.
this would still cripple the enemy economy without completly ruining it, and without making it too easy to cripple an enemy. as it is you would have to take the facility, which takes longer the farther in to enemy territory you get, but with the harvesters, you would provide a medium to raid without getting stuck at one spot for too long. for balancing purposes, the farther into enemy lands you get, the more health the harvesters have

SztEltviz · 2012-08-11, 06:49 PM

v-v-w "Wormsign!"

I want to drive a harvester! (They took my ANT

but that's maybe will be a replacement)

AnamNantom · 2012-08-11, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Akrasjel Lanate

Soo it would look like PI(or moon goo) passive you set a job and wait or active like mining where you have to participate

That's how I imagined it when I just read Smedley's blog. He's clarified his ideas further since then, in this forum. One thing he mentioned, programmable AI that could be traded between people for profit. This AI would be in, what I am assuming is bots that fight.

Originally Posted by Rat

I like it, sounds like EVE 0.0, I see it only being done on continents where outfits own the bases, any weapons or equipment used for defending your base or attacking other player owned bases would come from whatever resources you aquire through mining. maybe you could also attack enemy mining operations and steal their resources.

And whos to say that warfare has to be limited to enemy factions? open the combat up to interfaction warfare....bring politics and aliences into the game

open the sandbox

YES.

RoninOni · 2012-08-11, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Harasus

Heck, this could become the new way of grinding!

It shouldn't be overtly rewarding... and your whole team would be getting reports from the NPC's about being under attack. They're behind enemy lines, and the enemy knows what they're up to.

And yes, resource harassment WOULD become part of the game. Patrols would be assigned in the mission menu to watch for sneak attacks, and those patrols would be rewarded XP & resource for completing a mission.

I'd much rather run a patrol for XP than drive a harvest truck >.<

Inner faction warfare???

NC maybe...

TR are too disciplined and VS to brainwashed for that

SergeantNubins · 2012-08-11, 07:27 PM

I havent read all the other comments here (because there are loads and its late) but I really like the idea of c&c style resource harvesters (westwood did it before bliz with dune and then c&c, so really credit should be to them for the idea

). Maybe not even automated, perhaps players could drive them and earn xp or resources by overseeing the harvesting op for their faction. You could even have dynamicy generated resource fields so people have to hunt for them as well.

I think it would add a lot to the game, tactically and just as another playstyle for people to get involved with.

Phantasmio · 2012-08-12, 01:51 AM

I really like the idea of this! Disrupting enemy supply lines is a vital tactic in real war, so adding this into the game would add an extra element of strategy and gameplay for PS2! Plus, we now lack vehicles like the ANT, which was always fun to drive out to the gates to gather some resources for one of our bases, so this could fill in that void quite nicely! I know I would be down to escort some supply lines!

Anabuki · 2012-08-12, 02:07 AM

I like this idea too, but I wonder how it'll fit in terms of the demand for the resources that will be harvested. Will it be bulk Auraxium? Or will it be some less abundant resource that is needed to make certain things (special weapons, vehicles, implants)? Who will control the majority of this new resource? How is that decided? Can you trade these resources for services? etc etc etc. Does provide a new avenue for gameplay to develop, although I can see some people hesitant about the development of the 'RPG' elements in an MMOFPS.

exLupo · 2012-08-12, 03:23 AM

While I am a fan of harvesting in EVE (I probably gas more than run wh plexes for cash), I don't believe that PS really needs the additional depth. It's a fighting game. We're here not for the sandbox. We're here to put our boots on the throats of our enemies. I don't think that an additional resource mechanic, for its own sake, is necessary.

However, if harvesting setups (mobile npc? towers dropped from orbit on resource nodes? player ops?) were just there to give players a reason to leave static structures then that's something else entirely. Mobile fighting points? Random spawn areas to change combat focus? Hell, non-random, system directed spawns to make the maps more dynamic. Now -that- I could get behind. Harvesting is the MacGuffin, the real point is getting players fighting over something new and changing up the strategic landscape.

**Malorn** · 2012-08-12, 03:29 AM

Player harvesting was boring as fuck in EVE, it'll be boring as fuck in PS2. It was also boring in WoW. Herb farming or mining node farming - just how I wanted to spend my evening!

I know Smed's a big EVE fan, but there's a lot of extremely boring shit in EVE. Mining is at the top of the list to the point where it's only tolerable if you have a bot for it and most of the EVE economy is run by mining bots. Moon mining shifted things over to be a bit more interesting, so did the planetary stuff. That level of complexity is interesting, but the learning curve for that sort of stuff leaves a lot of bodies behind.

I like RTS elements, but any sort of resource harvesting needs to be automated. Players might have to set up the system, but there should be minimal time investment to maintain it and it should be more of an objective that can be optimized as opposed to something people actually spend time doing.